Phys-ad's and spell/karma points......, this should be fun Options

[Bearclaw]

OK, so do phys-ads get the same 35 points that other B class magic guys get?
I can't find a solid answer in canon. And it turns out you can't bond a weapon focus without karma :(

[Tanka]

As per rules... No.

Talk to your GM and see if he'll allow it.

[Bearclaw]

I'm the GM and I'm trying to figure out the rule. Barring a good explanation, I'm going to allow it. If a phys-ad wants to invest the resources, I don't see why I shouldn't allow it.

[Tanka]

A lot of GMs I know houserule (For SR3, that is. SR2 is different.) that PhysAds can purchase karma for bonding a weapon focus, and sometimes initiating. Some even go as far as giving them the Spell Points as virtual karma for bonding a weapon focus.

[Siege]

The quick rule of thumb was 25k per additional spell point and mages can trade spell points for karma so they can bond foci and etc.

Technically adepts cannot have spell points --> except for that technicality, the same logic works.

If an adept wants to high-end it's cash priorities and buy a focus and bond it, go for it.

-Siege

[Ol' Scratch]

In my games, all Awakened characters gain Spell Points equal to five times their Essence-Bio Index. Aspected magicians receive no bonus (they paid fewerd Build Points; that's their bonus), and adepts have to spend theirs on anything other than foci and additional Power Points at the cost of 2x the normal costs, so even they can choose to initiate or anything else as they see fit... but it's more expensive for them to do so simply because they already get Power Points and have fewer things to spend them on.

[Morphling The Pr...]

Or you can use BeCKs and use some of the karma to bond as you would during the game. That's up to your GM though; it IS a nice direct way to allow bonded foci without requiring much GM benevolance.

[Bearclaw]

That's a good point. I'll look at becks more seriously.

[Glyph]

BeCKS doesn't specifically allow you to spend Karma on things like that - Karma is just the mechanism it uses to pay for things. Allowing an adept to use Karma or buy spellpoints for bonding foci with Karma in BeCKS is kind of going against the whole point of that particular set of house rules. And with BeCKS, you can create a very tough adept that way.

The thing to remember is that adepts at char-gen can get the Improved Ability power at up to level 6. If they add a Force: 6 weapon focus on top of that, they start out with 18 dice before adding Combat Pool. If they use the ambidexerity rules, it gets even uglier. So think about that before you let adepts begin play with bonded weapon foci.

[Tanka]

Yes, but, then, as a general rule... What else are they good at? Sure, they can cut three Trolls in half without refreshing Combat Pool, but are they good at anything else?

[Siege]

[Ol' Scratch]

[Tanka]

Then the GM throws you in an entirely social situation. What now? Kill everybody and let the GM say they were all Drakes under the control of Ghostwalker and let him come and kill you himself? :grinbig:

As, I believe, was posted in some other random thread involving violence... Combat is not the only solution. But it is a solution.

Although, cutting three Trolls in half does sound fun.

[Siege]

Eh. I'm a fan of generalists, but you have to admit that a specialist can be pretty useful if deployed properly.

And it only takes two or three points to develop a secondary role -- you'll never be effective enough to overlap several specialists, but you can offer a good secondary role to backup the spec.

-Siege

[Ol' Scratch]

Resources A, Magic B, Attributes C, Skills D, Race E

Skills: Athletics 6, Biotech 1 (First Aid 3), Edged Weapons 6(12), Etiquette 6, Pistols 3 (Specialty 5), Stealth 6(10).

Adept Powers (Talisman Geased): Improved Ability: Edged Weapons 6, Increased Reflexes 2, Improved Ability: Stealth +4, Improved Senses: Dampener, Flare Compensation, Heaing Amplification, and Ultrasound.

Weapon Focus: Katana 6.

Considering he has a ton of cash leftover and can easily juggle his Skills around any number of ways, I'd hardly consider the Triple Troll-Slaying guy a "non-generalist." (And no, this is definitely not my type of character. I just threw some random stuff together to prove a point.)

[Siege]

Not to mention only 20 attributes means you're paying at least 2:1 for each skill that exceeds the attributes.

Other than that, the point is well made.

S'why I prefer points to priority.

-Siege

[Shadow]

[Tanka]

Meeee toooo...

Although, if, with Priority, you get those starting Spell Points as virtual karma, and they allow you to initiate... Ouch. Spend your "karma" on the bonding, then on initiating. Yummy starting character/munchkin. (I almost typed munchking! Silly me!)

[Ol' Scratch]

[Siege]

Attributes C?

Doesn't it go: 30, 24, 20, 18?

I must do research. :grinbig:

-Siege

Edit: Bah, 27 -- it's been a while since I've used the priority system.

30, 27, 24, 21 and 18

[Ol' Scratch]

30, 27, 24, 21, 18.

[Glyph]

Two common misconceptions are that 1) An adept who starts out with 6 points of Improved Ability is being a munchkin - personally, I don't consider it any more munchkin that a normal character starting out with a skill of 6; and 2) An adept who gets that 6 points of Improved Ability is a one-trick wonder - an adept can great in two or three areas, although they lose their main advantage (supreme skill in specialized areas) if they spread themselves too thin.

Now, if you use either the Priority System or the lower-end (120 points or so) Build Point systems, then adepts who go for the high resources at least wind up making real sacrifices for it. But with BeCKS and the higher point allocations on the Build Point sytem (130+ points), adepts can take high resources and still not suffer that much in Attributes or skills.

Of course, an adept can simply take the high resources, not bond the weapon focus, and then bond it within a few runs, so maybe letting them simply start out with it isn't that big of a deal - like I said, just realize that they will be very tough in close combat. If I allowed it, though, I would make them either buy spellpoints, spend Karma, or set some kind of Build Point cost - the rules are very specific that they don't get those 35 spell points and can't start out with bonded weapon foci, so you're doing them enough of a favor without effectively giving them the bonding cost for free.

[Sphynx]

As you all just know I'd jump on the bandwagon here.... :P

Seriously, 2.25 Power Points and 6 skill points towards a single skill is not a 1-trick pony at all. Hell, change the Doc's priorities to Race D; skills E and you've still plenty of skill points to spend and starting with 4 attributes at 6 is easy as a dwarf with attributes at C. 6, 6, 6, 6, 2, 2

Admittedly, with a 2 Willpower/Intelligence, he'd have a fun group of flaws, but the Doc's character (and those exact skill ratings) is very possible as a dwarf instead of a human.

Anyhows, Glyph hit the nail on the head. Any true munchkin will bond in-game anyhows, and start with 12 skill. A munchkin with the new M&M eratta would have 11 skill, and +4 (12)Strength (MuscleAug) level 1 MnemonicEnh, allowing that skill advancement to 17 be very very cheap, by 50 karma (21 to get the Spec to 12 and then bond the Focus) he'd have the focus bonded, and a skill(specialization) of 6(12)+5=11(17) if he wanted for (17+Force) 23 dice pre-pool. 24 if he adds in a reflex recorder at char-gen (BioIndex total = 1.9 I believe). ;) And he'd STILL be a generalist as the Doc showed. Of course, add Ambidex for 36 dice by 50 karma, and a strength of 12 for 15M damage and you've a real powerhouse 'generalist'. :P

Sphynx

[Siege]

I was waiting for Sphynx to weigh in on this one...:grinbig:

-Siege