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> Meet my totally awesome cyborg, Actually, he sucks
Buster
post Oct 28 2007, 08:07 AM
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This cyborg was built using standard chargen rules with the only exception that the CCU was allowed to be bought for 50 BP (sort of like a metatype). Even with that big exception, the cyborg still completely sucks as a combatant and can't afford any programs as a hacker. A big problem is that not only did he have to spend 50 BP for essentially lackluster cyberware and 200 BP for 100 BP worth of mental stats, but he also had to burn 20 BP on a chemical facility just for maintainance. At least he doesn't need to pay for Lifestyle, a nice parking spot on someone's roof would work fine.

I expect that with Arsenal, he'll be able to buy a better body to work as a combatant, but with the rules so far, he's terrible. Even though he takes half damage from all physical attacks and all physical damage becomes stun damage, his damage resistance dice pool is laughable and has no chance to improve later. Too bad he can't get a Pain Editor installed without turning him into a cyberzombie. Even with max BP in mental stats, his perception and combat pool sucks because of the drone's low Sensor rating. I made him an Elf (or rather a cloned Elf brain) so I could get some decent Chr for him, doubling the cost of mental stats kept his attributes awfully low. Maybe that 30 BP could be better spent somewhere else, like hacker skills. He does have one advantage, with his skillwires included in his CCU, he can buy a ton of rating 4 skillsofts (they're only availability 8), making him fairly versatile.

As fun as it would be to play a brain in a jar, I'm pretty sure any chargen cybersam could kick his ass out of the sky, and he's nothing compared to a good possession mage.

Later on this week I'm going to try retooling him as a hacker, but I just wanted to post this rigger before I hit the big DELETE button. Did I miss something perhaps or does anyone have any suggestions?


QUOTE (Cyborg)

Build point summary:
30 Elf
50 Clonal Brain CCU
0 Physical Attributes
200 Mental Attributes
40 Special Attributes
58 Active Skills
0 Positive Qualities
-35 Negative Qualities
50 Cyberware + Gear (250,000 ¥)
0 Contacts

= 393 BP Total
= 7 BP to spend on skills or contacts.

Detailed Build:

50 Clonal Brain CCU (+1 Vehicle tests, +2 Sanity checks, no Knowledge skills, only Cracking and Electronics group skills may be higher than rating 5)
Datajack
Commlink (Response 5, Signal 5)
Sim module (hot)
Simsense Booster (4 IP)
Control Rig (+2 Vehicle tests when jumped into drone)
Damage Compensator (rating 6)
Biomonitor
Skillwires (5)
Does not require complex action to pilot body.
Weekly maintenance
Cybertechnology + Logic (20, 30 minutes),
2,000 ¥ (or a Chemical Facility)
Immune to toxins (does not eat, breathe, or have skin)
0.1 Essence, no Magic or Resonance
Mental stats cost double BP at chargen
Monthly Sanity Check ( Will + Int + 2 (1) )
Always hot sim (4 matrix IP; +2 all Matrix tests; Matrix Init = Response + Int + 1)
No Physical Condition but any time the drone takes Physical damage, he is subject to biofeedback stun (half amount (round up) in Stun damage with a Willpower + Biofeedback Filter Test) (p. 239, SR4).
Use the lower of either Sensor or Intuition for Perception
Tests.
Attack: Gunnery + Sensor* = 5 + 3 + 3 = 11
Defense: Response = 5
Dodge: Dodge + Response = 4 + 5 = 9
Damage Resistance: Body + Armor = 4 + 2 = 6
Infiltration: Infiltration + Response = 4 + 5 = 9
Maneuvering: Vehicle skill + Response = 5 + 3 + 5 = 13
Perception: Perception + (Sensor or Intuition, whichever is lower) = 4 + 3 = 7

PHYSICAL ATTRIBUTES (0 BP)
Name Score
Bod: (4) Drone’s Body (C-D Dalmation)
Agil: 8 (8) Vehicle skill + Drone’s Handling (C-D Dalmation)
Reac: 5 Commlink Response rating
Str: (4) Drone’s Body (C-D Dalmation)

MENTAL ATTRIBUTES (200 BP)
Name Score  Cost
Cha:  3  0
Int:  5  80
Log:  3  40
Will: 5  80

SPECIAL ATTRIBUTES (40 BP)
Name Score  Cost
Edge: 5 40

Initiative: 11 Intuition + Response + 1
IP: 4

Ess: 0.1

ACTIVE SKILLS (5 BP)
Skill  Rating Cost
Gunnery  5 (8)  20
Pilot (Aircraft) 5 (8)  20
Hacking (some spec) 4 (6)  18

POSITIVE QUALITIES (BP)
(none)

NEGATIVE QUALITIES (-35 BP)
(all kinds of mental problems)


CYBERWEAR + GEAR (250,000 nuyen, 50 BP)

2000 Commlink upgrade (Response 4 to 5)
500 Commlink upgrade (Signal 4 to 5)

DRONES
2200 C-D Dalmatian (Large)
Handling  Accel Speed Pilot Body Armor Sensor
0  15/40 120 3 4 2 3 
2000 Ingram White Knight LMG
= 4,200

CYBERWARE (Cost = 135,000 ¥)

Skillsofts:
12000 ActiveSoft: First Aid 4
12000 ActiveSoft: Dodge 4
12000 ActiveSoft: Cybertechnology 4
12000 ActiveSoft: Aeronautics Mechanics 4
12000 ActiveSoft: Perception 4
12000 ActiveSoft: Infiltration 4
12000 ActiveSoft: Electronic Warfare 4
12000 ActiveSoft: Computer 4
12000 ActiveSoft: Hardware 4
12000 ActiveSoft: Cybercombat 4
12000 ActiveSoft: Software 4
= 120,000

Knowsofts
5000 Knowsoft: Chemical Fabrication 5
5000 Knowsoft: “Normal life? 5
5000 Knowsoft: Matrix hangouts 5
= 15,000

GEAR (Cost = 115,000 ¥)
600  First Aid Kit (rating 6)
500  Aeronautical Mechanic kit
4000  Fake Sin (rating 4)
400  Fake License (drone) (rating 4)
100000 Chemical Facility

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Ryu
post Oct 28 2007, 11:05 AM
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For starters, I´d take a flight capable drone as main body.

Nice spot on the elf regarding charisma costs. Considering what you are you might go with CHA 1 as well and save 30 points. Use those to buy cracking group 4 instead of just hacking. Now crucial self defense skills are always-on and do not need to be loaded before use. In combat you are likely to load perception and dodge, any sec. hacker forces you to face "interesting" choices.
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Buster
post Oct 28 2007, 03:55 PM
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QUOTE (Ryu)
For starters, I´d take a flight capable drone as main body.

Nice spot on the elf regarding charisma costs. Considering what you are you might go with CHA 1 as well and save 30 points. Use those to buy cracking group 4 instead of just hacking. Now crucial self defense skills are always-on and do not need to be loaded before use. In combat you are likely to load perception and dodge, any sec. hacker forces you to face "interesting" choices.

Good points. I thought the Dalmation was flight capable, it's vector thrust, is it hover only?
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Ryu
post Oct 28 2007, 08:16 PM
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My mistake. Somehow I thought "Doberman" instead of "Dalmation".

It is not hover-capable, alltough it can do VTOL if absolutely necessary. I´d probably take a rotor drone for combat and a mini-blimp for surveilance.
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Kyoto Kid
post Oct 28 2007, 09:50 PM
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...haven't read through all the rules in Augmentation yet. So you are telling me this "guy?" is actually a conscious drone? Like "Kit" from Nightrider? or "Bomb #20" from DarkStar?

After my RiS campaign concludes I am going to have to read up on this a bit.
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Stahlseele
post Oct 28 2007, 09:55 PM
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actually this "guy" is a brain in a jar with an implanted VCR Comlink that is constantly rigging it's own body-drone . . and because in SR4 everything is like uPnP the brain can be switched between anything with the right port . .
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Malicant
post Oct 28 2007, 09:57 PM
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He's more like RoboCop. A human brain in a drone body.
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Kyoto Kid
post Oct 28 2007, 10:19 PM
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..ahh more like the brain ships from Anne McCaffrey's The Ship who Sang. Now this is very intriguing. Got a couple weeks before the next RiS session, maybe I'll have to sit down with the PDF tonight for a bit of reading.
    Aurora Air
...the Smart way to fly...
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Stahlseele
post Oct 28 2007, 10:33 PM
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something i will probably try is building johnny 5 as a player character . . *g*
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Jaid
post Oct 28 2007, 11:12 PM
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QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
..ahh more like the brain ships from Anne McCaffrey's The Ship who Sang. Now this is very intriguing. Got a couple weeks before the next RiS session, maybe I'll have to sit down with the PDF tonight for a bit of reading.
    Aurora Air
...the Smart way to fly...

well, more like a brain ship if it sucked. a lot.

i've actually got another thread where i made this kind of observation about just how crappy the CCU is (essentially, you pay a whole heck of a lot just for the privilege of being able to ride inside smaller vehicles).

honestly, any balance concerns about cyborgs being overpowered are laughable. cyborgs are terrible. you should be far more afraid of a regular hacker/rigger than you should be of a cyborg. particularly if that hacker/rigger happens to be small enough to ride inside drones...
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Kyoto Kid
post Oct 28 2007, 11:47 PM
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...I was looking at them on more the NPC basis, and not necessarily as combatants either. The idea of the autonomous airliner (hence the "Aurora Air" tagline) that didn't need a meat crew in a flight deck but still had a "living" presence controlling it is what interests me. This kind of was inspired by discussion in the SINless Travel in 2070 thread, Basically the aircraft would have direct control of all it's own systems. The fight controls would be completely isolated as there would be no need for a conventional flight deck. It could still have various countermeasures (security drones, Neurostun emitters, etc. discussed in that thread) under the "pilot brain's" control for thwarting a hijack attempt.

...just a thought.
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DTFarstar
post Oct 29 2007, 12:13 AM
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Having a brain-in-a-jar directly plugged in from somewhere on board would allow you to extend to passenger cabin forward a bit as you would no long need the flight deck area at all.

Chris
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Jaid
post Oct 29 2007, 12:24 AM
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just on a side note, the cyborg does actually get +4 to pretty much all meatworld actions. +2 from hotsim (rigging is a matrix action) and +2 from control rig (it is also a vehicle action)

which brings dodge up to a very respectable 9 passive, and just makes a lot of his dicepools a lot more attractive in general.

the problem is not whether it's competitive with a sammy (i still agree that it is not, btw) but rather whether it is competitive with a rigger.
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hobgoblin
post Oct 29 2007, 12:52 AM
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hmm, rather then using a computer to balance a flying wing, one could use the brains built in sense of balance?

hell, forget about flight attendants, go drone carts ;)

hmm, a formation of cyborg t-birds...

hell, i just recalled a old comic about a race, where one of the competitors was a guy encased in a tiger shark like car. not fully "brain in a jar", but close enough to get chills.

i dont know, i dont think cyborgs are up there with sammies. thats what you have cyberzombies for. but its still something that could trip up a team. i would love to see the face of a rigger or hacker thinking its a remote drone, and tries to hack its control signal, only to find that there is none ;)
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Jaid
post Oct 29 2007, 01:32 AM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin)
i dont know, i dont think cyborgs are up there with sammies. thats what you have cyberzombies for. but its still something that could trip up a team. i would love to see the face of a rigger or hacker thinking its a remote drone, and tries to hack its control signal, only to find that there is none ;)

the same effect could be achieved using a drone with no wireless running, operating purely on a set of orders given to it before being launched. i'm not all that impressed, really.
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Shrike30
post Oct 29 2007, 02:56 AM
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The same effect minus any ability to think on the fly, sure.

We're gonna have to wait for Arsenal and Unwired both, before we really see the full potential of a Jarhead, but most starting Sammies aren't capable of running with 4 initiative passes and deciding that a dive-bombing run is a viable approach to the target they've just encountered. And just wait till you start seeing anthroform drones wearing mil-spec body armor.
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hobgoblin
post Oct 29 2007, 03:34 AM
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QUOTE (Jaid)
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 28 2007, 07:52 PM)
i dont know, i dont think cyborgs are up there with sammies. thats what you have cyberzombies for. but its still something that could trip up a team. i would love to see the face of a rigger or hacker thinking its a remote drone, and tries to hack its control signal, only to find that there is none ;)

the same effect could be achieved using a drone with no wireless running, operating purely on a set of orders given to it before being launched. i'm not all that impressed, really.

And what happens when those orders on longer fit the real world? The best laid plans last maybe 2 mins. ;)
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Orient
post Oct 29 2007, 03:38 AM
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Um. Now I'm thinking about Krang as a Shadowrun character...
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Ryu
post Oct 29 2007, 09:30 AM
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The tech is currently at an early beta stage. And, like the MBW we had before (SR3) only really useful for NPCs. Right now too dangerous to the brain, too expensive and too high maintenance. That will change (hopefully before SR5, with arsenal).

- Corporations will use it the way KK said: control of commercial vessels. The brain can rest for most parts of the journey, and the autopilot is instructed when to awaken its pilot. Great for long hauls, regardless of transportation methods.

- Military use? Manned aircraft that are NOT susceptible to high-G forces. Tank crews that don´t leave the vehicle and don´t die because home-made explosives made their tank jump.
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Mercer
post Oct 29 2007, 11:39 AM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin)
hell, i just recalled a old comic about a race, where one of the competitors was a guy encased in a tiger shark like car. not fully "brain in a jar", but close enough to get chills.

I had that comic. "I am the Mecha-Khan. I am the Rolling Tiger." I picked up that one issue because I was playing a lot of an old, old computer game called Deathtrack (which this being '90, was hot shit). Was it a Car Wars comic or was that just a natural assumption? I remember it was a road race across a post-apocolyptic midwest America, and there were lots of biker gangs and other weirdos trying to stop it.

Robocop wasn't a brain in a jar, was he? Caine from Robocop II was, but Murphy still had some stuff in that body-- he ate baby food, for one thing, and they were talking about saving his arm even though they decided to get rid of it. I always thought the original Robocop was a lot more like the SR3 FBR's, two cyberarms, two cyberlegs, cybertorso and cyberskull; but inside the torso he still had most his basic organs.
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Buster
post Oct 29 2007, 04:24 PM
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I found a cool picture of a brain-in-a-jar that looks like it could be the cover art of the next Shadowrun adventure:

A brain-in-a-jar having a nice night out at the local Johnny Rockets with his human and dwarf teammates just before being attacked by a horde of Horrors
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Tarantula
post Oct 29 2007, 05:25 PM
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Or, you could put it in a decent vehicle, such as a mobmaster, a tbird, or a big helicopter. Throw some missiles in with it, and some other weaponry, and you've got something to be scared of. Sure, he doesn't go in buildings, but thats not his job, his job is to take out whatever needs taken out.
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GryMor
post Oct 29 2007, 05:30 PM
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With a bit more miniaturization of the support equipment, we could be seeing GitS level prosthetic bodies soonish. Wonder if that would help with the insanity problems?
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Ryu
post Oct 29 2007, 05:36 PM
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The insanity seems to come from brain miniaturisation. As in loosing greater parts of the brain during the process.
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Simon May
post Oct 29 2007, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE (hobgoblin)
hmm, rather then using a computer to balance a flying wing, one could use the brains built in sense of balance?

Your sense of balance doesn't actually come from the brain, but from the inner ear, and since cyber ears are already prevalent, there's nothing to say they couldn't hook up the proper equipment to the brain to mimic this.
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