Alternate Matrix Rules, Everyone is doing it Options

[Seven-7]

[Cheops]

The data log is still alive and kicking in SR4 so if you BH a guy his commlink and whatever node you happen to do it on will register your Access ID in their logs unless you go and edit the logs (except you can't on the guy you just dumped).

Also you can't BH a guy in AR because all it does is dump his persona (which only takes a complex action to refresh). He'd have to be in VR for this to work and odds are he isn't in VR in the middle of a firefight.

[Crusher Bob]

A bit late to the party, it appears.

Some things that may be worth adding:

The computer skills listed are not needed for computer literacy. Everyone in 2070 (without the computer illiteracy flaw) knows how to do simple tasks with computers. What the computer skills actually represent is actual alterations in your brain that make it interface with devices better. While creating these brain structures (via surgery) is theoretically possible, there have been no confirmed successes. This means that computer skills cannot be chipped. This is also why there are not roving gangs of brain snatchers wandering the streets looking for their next processor upgrade. (But here's plenty of story room for toxic technomacers that want to eat your brain meat to bootstrap their own to then next level.)

Should Jedi be changed to B & D so that you can is can work on cops asking for your ID as well? Or should that version be a form, rather than a program? Or will the taxman program do this already?

How well are the brains of animals mapped? Can a hacker black hammer guard dogs? guard crocodiles? Mages who are shape-changed into crocodiles? If dog brain are hackable, are there any odd techs drones with actual dog brains in them? Heck no one is going to miss all those third world babies anyway...

Should the balance between hackers and technomancers be similar to the balance between sams and adepts? If so, what are the strengths of one vs the other?

What are the limits of brain hacking (similar to: magic cannot teleport, etc)? Is is supposed to be largely limited to more 'gross' and real-time effects such as black hammer, or can you reprogram some poor fashion model to kill the Prime Minister of Malaysia? Note that a control thoughts spell would be visible to astral security, while a brain hacker person might not be (does your aura change when you are ghost hacked?)

Added flavour bit stolen from GiTS: getting your headware worked on basically requires you and the doctor to be inside a faraday cage, to prevent hackers from screwing with you when your brainware is turned off. Normally, an outside witness (next of kin, etc) should be watching the procedure to be sure the doctor isn't doing anything he shouldn't be doing. Of course, how much do you trust your doctor? In fact how much do you trust your friend, Bob, who is monitoring the procedure when you are out? What if your trust for Bob is an implanted memory, a setup for a real screw job down the road?

Should there be tinfoil hats available, that still allow you for opt out of the matrix? For example, a cyber-skull with the faraday cage add on? Makes those mnemonic couriers easy to ID, look for the guy with the big metal head.

What are the defensive steps to take when under attack by a hacker, when you don't have one of your own? Jamming to reduce signal range, href guns to fry drones equipment before the come to get you?

[FrankTrollman]

[Catharz Godfoot]

Am I correct in assuming that programs no longer have ratings? If so, what are some good prices?

Also, will a sim module be effective for emulating vision, audio, taste, etc links when not in full VR?

[deek]

That's an incorrect assumption. Reading the program descriptions, some of them refer to ratings...others do not. Frank reminded me that he was working on outstanding questions that I have already asked, this being one of them...

[Ryu]

No, that question was answered. Program ratings limit hits, see spell mechanic.

[Catharz Godfoot]

Thanks.

[Crusher Bob]

[Buster]

[Ryu]

That could make for an interesting take on technomancers. Mundane hackers + extras.

One could amp up Encryption to threshold for decryption = Encryption rating, still NOT an extended test. TMs could get the option (via immersion) of making this an opposed test again.

[FrankTrollman]

Actually, I think I would like the setting better if basically anyone who wanted to be could be a technomancer. But I'm writing with the intent to salvage as much of 4th editions backstory and mechanics as possible. One of the goals I think I've achieved here is the ability to pretty much replicate all the big events of the storyline without hand waving.

So quite circularly, Technomancers are in and distinct in what they can do from normal hackers because they are like that in the story.

-Frank

[FrankTrollman]

News

I put in an equipment section of sorts. It's at the bottom of the rules. I'm also working on Examples, what all do people want examples of?

In other news, I'm going to be running a game using these rules:

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=19741

-Frank

[Zak]

Impressive piece of work.
I like the streamlining to the general rules. Definatly going to talk this over with my group once we start the next campaign.

I doubt the direct attacks will make it into our game, but apart from that it promises to be easier to handle than the current ruleset.

[Crusher Bob]

The extra advantage of any (mundane) can submerge is that is keeps adepts from being the best hackers. An adept can get bonus dice to do everyday tasks, but all of the really cool hacker tricks require submersion, which you can't get as a mage.

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Looking at the equipment rules:

Poor man on the street has a system 2, signal 2 (100m), OS 2, firewall 2 commlink costing him 700Y. (resists brain hacking with 5 dice)

Middle lifestyle man on the street has system 3, signal 3 (400m), OS 3, firewall 3 commlink costing him 1600Y (resists brain hacking with 6 dice)

High lifestyle guy on the street has system 4, signal 4 (1km), OS 4, Firewall 4 costing 5000Y (resists brain hacking with 7 dice)

being a paranoid git, he might be running a redundant biofeedback filter with rating 4, costing him another 2,000Y (brain hacking resistance goes up to 11 dice)

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A PC who is not a hacker but has plenty of money has a system 5, signal ?, OS 5, firewall 5 commlink for at least 11,000 Y

He throws on a rating 5 (2500Y) biofeedback filter and he gets willpower +10 vs brainhacking.

---------------

A PC hacker has an system 5, signal 5, OS 5, firewall 5 commlink (12,000Y)
He has the programs he wants at rating 6

If he wants to, he can go into hot sim for response +2 on his commlink and rely on his signal defense vs brain hacking. This raises his system response to 7, letting him run his programs at their full rating, and letting him run 7? programs at once. I assume he then couldn't fire up a redundant biofeedback filter program at rating 6.

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If I read this right, the PC hacker running in hotsim mode has 7 matrix actions a turn? (Response =7). Should this be cut down? Something like 1 + (system /2) or (system /3) ? Being able to blackhammer your Mom 7 times in three seconds seems a bit over the top. Expecially if you make an adept hacker specializing in blackhammering peoples Moms.

[Crusher Bob]

Possibly interesting bits in the style of Being Poor

Being poor is having nothing to eat this week becuase you had to buy that 200Y pair of shoes.

Being poor is waking up one morning and discovering that you think it's a wonderful idea to sell your kids to that ghoul in the 10,000Y suit.

Being poor is prostituting yourself to pay for another months electricity to run the jammer in your house, because no matter how bad selling your body it, giving away your mind is worse.

Being poor is is staying awake, because all your dreams would be about new and exciting ways to get the stains out of your laundry.

Being poor is finding yourself being unable to drink anything but Nuka-Cola.

Being poor is not being able to let your children go out and play because their comm-links have broken and you can't afford to replace them.

Being poor is knowing the details of contructing a Faraday cage out of chiken wire and knowing how to mathematically model the dead signal zones in an area, but still not knowing how to read.

Being poor is holding that heavy duffel bag for your best friend Fastjack, until he comes around and asks you for it.

[FrankTrollman]

[Crusher Bob]

So can you still limp out (go full VR) for the +2 IP? Are hackers supposed to get Wired reflexes for more IP? Or will everyone be limited to one full matrix action a turn?

-----

Does the stuff I posted in 'being poor' fit with how you envision the system working? It would seem to be the poorest who would opt out of the matrix, since they are the ones most vulnerable to it. The ironic thing is that there are plenty of esentially free matrix services that would benefit the poor most (education, news, etc) but if they expose themselves in an attempt to better their situation, some advert hacker will eventually come along an jingle them. (assuming an advert hacket has skill 3, logic 3, and an appropriate specialization, he's one hit over the smaple poor man on the street).

I'm assuming that there are reasonably skilled brainjackers who spend time jingling poor folks to buy useless consumer goods.

In addition, I'd assume that there are all sorts of horror stories (at least some of them true) about brain-jackers, just like the stories about mind-mages.

Hmm, will there be low bandwidth networks running through such areas?

The richest are sufficiently protected against most brainhacks that they can get all the benefits of the matrix.

--------

Any progress on the examples?

[FrankTrollman]

[Buster]

I have a question on the program prices you posted. The 500¥/Rating – 2/Rating notation confused me. Are they supposed to be Price = (500¥ * (rating - 2)) and the Availability = (rating)?

[Crusher Bob]

I'd assume it cost = (500Y x rating) and availability = (2 x rating).

[Chandon]

Frank -

The system you propose is neat. The direction you've chosen - completely replacing the Matrix system with the magic system - seems like it might work really well.

On the other hand, brain hacking is simply unnecessary jank. The balance argument for adding it is... lacking, and your flavor explanation for it is lame.

If I understand correctly, your logic went about like this:
- Open wireless networks connected to anything useful (security cameras, doors, the alarm) are a security nightmare.
- Therefore no company does it.
- Huh, there's nothing for hackers to do.
- I'll let them black-hammer random people who aren't even online.

The problem is with your second step - it simply doesn't follow. Usability trumps security in corporate computer networks basically every time.

Trying to convince management to install a wired network in 2071 would be like convincing them to move to OpenBSD workstations with security tokens to log in today - sure, a couple of ultra-paranoid managers may do it at ultra-secure facilities, but 99.99% of the time it just won't happen. The CEO will say "we can be almost as secure with radio-blocking paint, and that way I won't have to futz with plugging wires into my comlink to check my internal voice mail and remotely unlock my office door when someone knocks".

Even when a wired network does get installed (usually a very limited security-camera and door locks only network), a hacker can just hack it by plugging in - you unscrew the back panel on the camera, unplug the wire, and plug it into the wireless repeater your brought - which has a second port to plug into the camera so it's only off the network for a couple seconds.

That's what a hacker does by the way, and why they came along rather than staying home after the legwork. Sure, people can be completely immune to hackers by not using electronics - but that's like saying you can be immune to fraud by never using money, it's true, but not practically interesting.

If you want to make hackers more relevant, do it by making the network more ubiquitous. I'd start by completely removing cash nuyen - if people want to perform a financial transaction off-network, they can use gold bullion or something. But even that's probably not necessary - hackers already fill a perfectly good team niche controlling nearby electronics and scrubbing data trails.

---

Now, I do admit that none of that is very cleanly represented by the base SR4 rules, since it doesn't provide enough material to support the level of abstraction they chose (and what material it does provide isn't necessarily coherent). But that's another issue - and maybe an alternate system a lot like the one you present would be a good solution to that problem.

[FrankTrollman]

You know what? I don't even want to have that particular discussion anymore. I'm sick of it, I'm done. Some people like my rules, some people don't. And I don't give a flying rat's ass if you happen to fall into one group or the other.

That being said, I suppose I will answer this. Again. My thought processes aren't extremely simple, I came to my conclusions over a period of two fucking yers of actually playing the game! But sure, let's go over this in simplified form so that you can see where I'm coming from:

---

First, I want to play Cyberpunk, not Post-Singularity. Second, I want matrix specialists to fight each other in the Matrix. I want people to get brain fried on the internets. I want my fucking Shadowrun, not Asymetric Threat.

"Pure" AR Creates the Hackastack. In the basic rules they present the axiom that you can hack with just a device and a keypad. Kind of like how I might hack today. The problem is that this means that a drone can hack with a device and a keypad. Or a single person could have multiple devices with multiple keypads and switch from one to the other. And while that's fine in the 1980s, or any time period where these "hacking devices" are few in number and Matrix "access points" are limited, in a world with wireless communications and ubiquitous computing, we've just crossed singularity threshold where everyone can take "arbitrary" amounts of actions.

One-way Computer Interaction prevents Brain Damage. In 2007, a Hacker does not get brain fried at all. He types commands into his computer and he either compromises the target or he does not, and in any case nothing happens to him. And that's great - for the Hacker. But because it's great for the hacker, it's bad for Shadowrun. There's no amount of "winning" you can give someone which will make up for never losing. So once you give people the option of skipping the entire chance of getting Dumpshock, they'll probably do that.

To Limit Hackastack Singularity, I chose to create Identity between the Hacker and the Network. That is, the reason that the Hackastack allows a player to extendthelves into infinity is that a specific Matrix Specialist can own more than one Matrix Persona. It's extremely problematic the way the basic rules allow them to use them all together (Agent Smith), but simply using them consecutively protects you in all ways from suffering any real damage from Hacking (Hackastack). By forcing all computing of any real caliber to go through the brain, I have created an arbitrary limit to the number of networks one person can command (equal to their number of brains), as well as destroyed the concept of one-way interaction. Now people can get dumpshock, which is good because it's a concept in Shadowrun so important that we named this forum after it.

Real World Hacking relies upon User Error, but Players control the actions of PCs. No player is going to have their character open the atachment "Malicious_Code.exe" on the email from SecurityGnome546. And "hacking fights" between two guys trying to trick each other into doing so is boring as hell. Matrix combat is supposed to be an action packed affair with virtual swords flashing - if characters seriously have to allow themselves to be compromised the combats aren't even as strategic and interesting as Bomber Man - it's just two people standing on the other side of the room trying to convince the other to eat a poison candy bar that they both know is fucking poison!

I chose to create a model in which user error was not required. Because action is no longer required on the part of the target to be hacked, action is now required on the part of the target to avoid being hacked. That's good. It's the dynamic I'm looking for.

Once the "Network" includes brains, and "Hacking" is pro-active, you can hack other people's brains. This should be fairly non-contentious, but for some reason it causes some people to flip the fuck out. I don't know why. And I don't even care.

So sure, you can go ahead and not like the rules I made. I'm not telling you that you have to use them. You can even not use the flavor text. That's fine too. But that's where I'm coming from. I wanted people to fight each other in the matrix through their datajacks and have the loser slump over in his chair like what happens in the books. I wanted everyone to run around with a commlink hooked to their brain all the time, like the book tells me people are supposed to do. And I got that. People use commlinks. They use them all the time. People fight in the Matrix. The Matrix is no longer something you can conveniently ignore. It's no longer something you can copy yourself onto millions of times.

For my goals, it's a success. Those not may be your goals. You may not like it, you may decide not to use it. But it is not "jank".

-Frank

[Sponge]

[Redjack]