 Nash Equilibria and Matrices, Your targets are not stupid. |
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 Nov 10 2007, 11:53 PM
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#276
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Immortal Elf  Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890  |
Sure can. Saying "no" to someone regarding them wanting to start the game with an arsenal of tactical nukes is exactly the same as saying "no" because I refuse to acknowledge how foolish something I've said is.
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Nov 11 2007, 03:38 PM
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#277
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 29-October 05 Member No.: 7,908 |
In my opinion, my belief that these things can be done are no more wild than the belief that the human brain can be read/written at a distance via wireless signals. This limitation on brain hacking exists only because the house rules you've presented forbid it for game balance, or any other number of reasons and not because the technology, when taken to its logical conclusion, could not do so. I can understand that from the perspective of drafting a new rule base. But I am not thinking from that perspective. My perspective is simply, if technology had that power, what kind of genies would really come out of the bottle? At least that is how I understand our disagreement. We agree to disagree, and that is all. I will respectfully disengage. This post has been edited by Red: Nov 11 2007, 03:50 PM |
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Nov 11 2007, 05:10 PM
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#278
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
You said it best earlier Fortune when you pointed out that in SR3 all you needed to do was kill a decker and take his deck/programs. Now you are an awesome decker too! You don't even need to bother with program design, deck design, or any of that nonsense because now you can break into systems just as well as anyone. Never mind that a large part of being a decker in fluff was custom designed cyberdecks, programs, and being generally cool. In fact I made a decker that did just this. I made a professional database designer (ie 3's and 4's in just about everything) who goblinized into a Troll. He couldn't remember a lot of the stuff he used to know so he joined the shadows and started install ware in himself to try and regain his former smarts. Whenever he had trouble decking a place he'd find a local coffin motel, intimidate the front desk into telling him who went in with a deck or look for the street sam guarding a coffin, shoot said guard in the face with a shotgun, shoot the decker in the face with said shotgun, then take the SOTA deck home with him. He was pretty crappy but made up for that by stealing from other deckers (plus he was a crapload of fun to play). "Der...I used to know that. Arrgh! Troll smash!" |
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Nov 11 2007, 09:43 PM
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#279
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
I don't actually think that's it at all. And that's not just because I'm a conceited ass. Lots of people actually do get what I'm talking about and either like it or don't. They give it a thumb's up or a thumb's down and then they move on. And I'm actually OK either way. As I said, what I wrote is not for everyone, and I wouldn't presume to inflict it on people who didn't want it. But for reasons which I find frankly unfathomable, there are some people who disagree with one or more of my assumptions and then take it upon themselves to argue logic at me. I say that they are arguing at me rather than with me with deliberation. You know as well as I do that once you have rejected one or more of the premises of a logically consistent argument, there is nothing more to discuss from a logical standpoint. Now, I suppose that the world is entirely capable of sustaining someone who develops a system which works better than my own. That would be great. Someone would have made something better than what I made, meaning that the world would have something better in it and I would have to do less work. Win/Win! So I am entirely willing to listen to someone put together a set of axioms different from my own and then logically construct why they think this works better. What I am not willing to do is continue to respond in a civil manner to people who continually present me with premises different from my own and then logically demonstrate that these different premises lead to conclusions which are not desirable. I honestly don't give a flying fuck how broken the world would be if you used a set of starting assumptions which were similar to mine but different in one or more key areas. If you have some slightly different assumptions that make the world work better, I am all ears. But proving that a system that isn't mine is broken means precisely jack and shit to me at this point. Here are some examples of arguments that I don't want to ever read again under any circumstances:
Seriously dude, no. Just no. We can put “Magic Spells� and “Counterspelling�, or “Shotguns� and “Armor� in for A and B in order to see exactly how stupid that argument is. But suffice it to say that it doesn't get any better when you throw in “Black Hammer� and “Commlinks with a Firewall in a direct neural interface with your brain.� If one person can take one action to accomplish one unit of work, then they can take one action to accomplish an arbitrarily large amount of work. This one breaks my mind. No. This is like arguing that because Manabolt exists that the world has to include F.A.T.A.L. at the same drain. I don't follow the logic here. In fact, there is no logic here. How much effect you can get from an action is one of the ground assumptions of the rules and the setting. If discrepancies between the world as presented and the tactics which are effective according to the rules simply don't bother you, you don't need to change either the rules or the flavor text to get them to agree. This is an irrelevant tangent. If you honestly don't need or want the rules to generate the proposed tactics of the security as decent tactics, then there's no reason for you to even read alternate rules. Let alone comment on them. Indeed, if your basic assumption is that a rule system doesn't need to “work�, then obviously you aren't going to ever see eye to eye or have any productive conversation with someone who is tinkering with the system. Now there's lots of conversations I will have. But if someone is going to make a “logical� argument which presupposes ignoring or changing one of my explicit premises, then there's really only so much that can be said before we have to just agree to disagree. And since people seem unwilling to do that until I tell them straight up that I am refusing to respond to their posts anymore – then that's what I have to do. Weirdly, this seems to represent me being the bigger man. -Frank |
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Nov 11 2007, 10:31 PM
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#280
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
jesus christ you make my head hurt. i could care less if you respond to this or not, Frank, it needs to be said: your arguments are not logically consistent. the only thing holding them together is the fact that you want them to stay together. the assumptions you are making have ramifications that you refuse to acknowledge. the fact that you refuse to acknowledge them does not make them illogical. kinda the opposite, actually--the fact that you refuse to acknowledge them makes you illogical. it doesn't make you the bigger man, it makes you the little kid with his fingers in his ears going "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU."
a perfect example is your list of arguments that you don't want to see again. let's take the first one: "If Attack A can affect a target who doesn't have Special Item B, then Special Item B can't possibly protect the target from Attack A." nobody said that. nobody said that the reason commlinks can't protect brains is because black hammer can affect people without commlinks. you're ignoring the reasoning presented to you and putting words in people's mouths, and then wondering why those people get mad at you. "If one person can take one action to accomplish one unit of work, then they can take one action to accomplish an arbitrarily large amount of work." same deal--nobody said that. whether one action can accomplish an arbitrary amount of work depends wholly on what the work is. if the work is sending out an email, for instance, a single action can accomplish an arbitrary amount of work. your system depends on the concept that brainhacking is a non-repetitious process, that sending the same data to unprotected brains will have different results. but that is impossible, because there is no possible way to 'read' an unprotected brain to find out what data you need to send to achieve result X. therefore, if 'hacking' an unprotected brain is possible at all, all it involves is sending a certain set of data to it. sending a set of data to an arbitrary number of recipient nodes is, unless there is some other limitation, as easy as sending it to one node. |
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Nov 11 2007, 10:41 PM
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#281
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
No. Your assumption is that Attack A (Blackhammer) works without Special Item B (DNI) to affect the target. Which is the retarded part of the entire procedure. I watch television programs (Simsense). The television (Commlink) influences me to a limited degree. Your assertion is that because I have a remote control (Blackhammer utility) that affects my television (Commlink) and the programs I watch on it (Simsense), I can skip the television (Commlink) entirely and use the remote control (Blackhammer) to affect not only me (my brain), but everyone else on the planet with unparalleled ease. Nevermind that the remote control (Blackhammer) is completely and utterly reliant on the television (Commlink) and programs (Simsense) in order to affect people (brains around the world). That's just crazy talk, apparently. Even worse, your idea not only assumes that you can affect people directly with the remote control, but if you DO have a television in the area, the remote control's signal is instantly absorbed by the television and protects the person from its mentally-influenced signals of doom. AND THEN you could just put a piece of tape (Firewall) over the infrared receiver on the television and get even stronger protection! And even worse than that, you believe it SHOULD be that way because television watchers can't kill people as effectively as a guy with a gun can. Which just completely throws the "wtf?" barometer into a hissey fit.
Except your assumption is on par with replacing A with "Manabolt" and B with "Armored Vest." B was designed to stop attacks, but A isn't the type of attack it was designed to stop. At least not until you write up your Goofy Rules C and say that's exactly what B was designed to do and COULD do even before Goofy Rules C. And all because Special Item D (Trodes) don't work the way you think they work.
Yes. Ignore the fact that the people are actually pointing out the flaws in your (apparently flawless and superhumanly pristine, for it was forged by the great mind of FrankTrollman and thus cannot be imperfect) "explicit premises." Regardless of how fucking idiotic it may be. Oh, and no, telling people that you're not going to talk anymore doesn't make you the bigger man. It makes you the little crybaby who's taking his ball and going home. |
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Nov 11 2007, 10:44 PM
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#282
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 246 Joined: 26-January 06 Member No.: 8,198 |
Dude. Chill the hell out. |
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Nov 11 2007, 11:08 PM
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#283
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Perhaps you should read the post above mine, too. As well as the numerous other ones by numerous other people with similar attitudes therein. Including ones by your apparent idol.
Just saying. |
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Nov 11 2007, 11:22 PM
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#284
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 246 Joined: 26-January 06 Member No.: 8,198 |
Your the first post I see, and then I feel the need to remove myself from any sort of reading the previous conversation. Does no one understand the Golden rule or what? :/ |
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Nov 11 2007, 11:30 PM
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#285
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
when i post ideas lacking in internal consistency, i appreciate--if only after the fact, sometimes--getting reamed for it. hurt feelings get better, but dumb ideas last until they are knocked down and curb-stomped.
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Nov 12 2007, 12:47 AM
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#286
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Since you asked nicely.
This, I agree with. However, it seems to carry with it certain implicit assumptions that I shall refute later in this post.
Again, agreed.
Agreed, partially. For the most part, covert ops teams don't dedicated crackers because they're performing covert operations against people who live in caves in third world countries and have no electricity. Yeah, Osama does occasionally upload a video to the internet through intermediaries, but he doesn't have the capability to download shemale porn movies from home. The fact that physical access to a computer may be necessary is a good reason to bring along a cracker. But, with computers being small and light and standardized, it is simple enough to just train your soldiers on how to open one up and take out the hard drive. The cracker can examine the data disks at home without all of the pressure associated with being shot at. But when you have to get specific data off of a mainframe the size of a schoolbus without being detected, then you darn sure bring a dedicated cracker with you. There are also issues with complex electronic security systems where crackers can be useful, but SOTA security systems are rare enough in third-world caves that it is easier to just train the other guys in how to disable them.
Not really. Sneakernet is hackable. It just requires that you mug the Sneakerman.
The implication here is that there is no reason to have a computer cracker a traditional covert operations team if air gaps work. This is also implied in the first paragraph I quoted in this exercise. This is obviously untrue. Dedicated crackers make no sense on a covert ops team if one of two situations hold true. 1) Electronic security systems are either impossible to defeat or very easy to defeat and computer disks can easily be taken. 2)You're fighting Luddites. Traditionally, in Shadowrun, neither of these conditions are true. While maglocks can be defeated with passkeys, there are issues with other forms of electronic security which often require specialists. Also, computers tended to be huge and bulky, making it impossible to just take the whole thing back and have the decker look at it. Air gaps simply mean that the decker must go in the facility and directly interface with the mainframe, rather than having the luxury of getting the data from home.
Again, the Air Gap and Sneakernet are exactly the reasons why deckers actually have to go into the facility can can't just attack from the comfort of home.
This is true. It is true today and it is true in Shadowrun. You just seem to be ignoring this fact. There is no way in hell Megacorps are going to go back to filing cabinets with manila folders because it is so damned inefficient. They certainly aren't going to do back to doing computations on abacuses for projects that might require several quintillion calculations per day. When it comes to financial infrastructure, networked computers are incredibly useful and they prevent more fraud than they allow, certainly. No one would reasonably suggest going back to the days of people writing unverifiable personal checks which contain more rubber than a John Holmes dildo. Nor would anyone want to replace instant credit card verification machines with that little slide thing that takes an impression of the card. In Shadowrun, this is mostly fluff. But it is canon that one cannot buy from many store without a comlink, for example, because this form of payment is so ubiquitous and so easy. It helps reduce shoplifting, as well. If you have an active comlink, anything you carry out of the store is automatically charge to your bank accounts. So long as active comlinks are required to enter a store, that store cannot be shoplifted from.
You see, the problem with this is that it is not only unnecessary but it is silly. It requires an absurd amount of handwaving; it very much breaks suspension of disbelief. Of course, many people are against it. But, it also does address the point. The entire point is explaining why hackers go on Shadowruns and thus giving hackers things to do. Momhammer doesn't explain why hackers go on Shadowruns. Momhammer explains why comlinks are common. But, it makes the hacker just as useless as he was before. All it does is create a rather worthless weapon that no sane person would ever bother using because it is so easy to defend against. The BP investment for Electronic Warfare 4 is so low that no one would be without it. It doesn't expand the hacker's role in the team in any way. It just turns him into a very limited combat mage, of sorts. Most importantly, it doesn't explain why devices which are not intended to ever be wirelessly connected to a human brain would have wireless access. In other words, it doesn't address the point that you were attempting to address. Yes, it makes people have comlinks, fine, cool. It doesn't make the hacker any more or less useful in the endgame, not really.
Probably. Information is power. Hackers have always been integral to the datasteal. If you need to get information from a supercomputer in a high-security bunker, it isn't enough that you blast your way to the machine, you also must actually be able to get the data. You can't get the data out of the high-security supercomputer just by squinting at it real hard. You do actually need a hacker. Physical access still doesn't bypass passwords, and while you can steal a disk to crack later it is far ore difficult to steal a couple dozen vending-machine-sized disk arrays, particularly when you are at the bottom of a bunker and racing against the clock to avoid a paramilitary response team. The way people seem to be playing SR4, electronics and computer cracking seems to de-emphasized, though the streamlined rules were meant to emphasize it. Back in the good old days, it would be a pain in the butt to run a PC decker, but teams tended to be crippled without one. A good decker would be tasked with everything from using his electronics skill to hotwire maglocks to performing overwatch to getting the paydata. The combined matrix/drone rules make overwatch even easier, but no one really talks about it much anymore. Maybe it will be less neglected when ARSE and Unwired are released. But no one should underestimate the importance of battlefield overwatch. |
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Nov 12 2007, 04:55 AM
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#287
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 30-December 06 Member No.: 10,493 |
So, Frank's ruleset represents a departure from SR4 technology. It's obviously more advanced, and represents Minority Report-type tech rather than Johnny Mnemonic-type tech.
But if you want to talk 'realism', I think it becomes apparent that for SR4 technology to seem internally consistent you need to either go in the direction Frank is going, or jam it into reverse. Take the example of 'trodes. They can be used to perform read operations on the brain in real time. They require little power and no calibration or circuitry beyond an interface to a comlink. This indicates that SR4 comlinks probably come loaded with incredibly accurate models of metahuman brains, such that they can quickly scan in any differences using sensors placed in arbitrary and possibly shifting positions, and then use the modified model to accurately read in information from any individual. If that's true, there should be nothing stopping sensors not touching the metahuman to read the same information as (or more information than) the trodes. After all, current MRIs and SQUIDs can get higher resolution data than electrodes without touching the subject. It's true that current SQUIDs get completely decalibrated when you so much as wear glitter near them, and MRIs can cause 3rd degree burns if you've got metallic ink in your tattoos. It's also true that their time resolution tends towards slow. However, there's no way that you could get the resolution needed from electrodes either. We're dealing with "sufficiently advanced technology" here. So in Frank's universe, we go with the flow and say, OK, hidden transmitters can beam advertisements directly into your lateral geniculate nucleus using FFT-modulated ultrasound or triangulated electromagnetic radiation to heat neurons. If you're smart, you have a comlink, which has a firewall, which constantly monitors your brain for incoming signals, dampens them with destructive interference, and tells the source to route communications through it. Unfortunately, that comlink can be jammed too. When it is, oops, that firewall is no longer protecting your brain, and in comes the spam. Some people stick their comlinks right into their heads. This is a pretty invasive procedure, because it involves implanting a fucking Faraday cage in your skull. Why? Because interfacing wirelessly is a lot more convenient than running wires to every other neuron in your brain, but at the same time the possibility of jamming obnoxious. The end result saves processing speed, as the only firewall you need is one to protect your digital hardware. In addition, having the comlink that much closer to the grey saves precious picoseconds (although it's questionable whether your wetware ever notices as its clock cycles are not of that order). Plus it's pretty much a prerequisite for jamming other shit in there. So the wireless brain interface goes both ways (that's how an unblocked advert for a strip club can result in creamed jeans). This means that an asshole with a hacked link can try to overload your input and give you a seizure, or possibly just spike the heat and cook part of your brain. That's bad, but although sensory and even emotional i/o is scarily effective (metahuman sensory apparatuses tend to be similar), and although there's enough radiation out there to microwave your head, certain things are still mostly inviolate. Holographic structures which tend to be unique to individuals and surprisingly hard to even detect, let alone interpret. This means that your memories are mostly safe. "Mostly" because, like any other form of encryption, they can be cracked given time and expertise... Anyway, that's my take on how Frank's matrix technology works. Like I said, there's another route which involves saying that the only way to get a good DNI is cyberware or an immobile apparatuses (SQUIDs, probably) with calibration times. I like the flavor of that route better, but unlike Frank's it has no working rules system. Until someone (maybe me) comes up with that other working system, I'm going to use Frank's (which IMO fits the flavor of SR4 better anyway). If this was tl;dr, the take home message is: The wireless tech can work and make sense, and it's the only working example of the two good possibilities I can think of. |
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Nov 12 2007, 07:42 AM
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#288
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 246 Joined: 26-January 06 Member No.: 8,198 |
I had not even thought of this possibility. I knew that Brain Data was going from the trodes to the brain, but how did it get there? The thought that it never left the brain, but was more like....Morse code with lights? I donno! But hell, better than any explanation I could have come up with. |
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Nov 12 2007, 09:15 AM
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#289
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
Personnaly I think that's what the SimModule is about: calibrating your DNI according to your own brain. That's why you need one.
That's also why (in my opinion) signals processed by another SimModule but sent to your DNI won't work... But that's not the topic of this discussion. |
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Nov 12 2007, 05:52 PM
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#290
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 8-November 07 Member No.: 14,097 |
I'm not sure computers are particularly large in Shadowrun, but just as problematic (if not more so) for retrieving the physical media is finding out where it is in meatspace. Even in today's offices with dozens-to-hundreds of computers, finding out which particular headless beige box is the one that corresponds to a given network host, and where it is - without prior knowledge, a map, and/or very explicit labeling - is hard. Extrapolate this into SR4's model of ubiquitous computing, terminals using network applications, remote storage in massive high-security datacenters, and so on, and your problem just became that of finding a needle in a warehouse full of haystacks. Even if you didn't need a decker to grab the actual hardware, you'd still need one to hack in and locate it inside the data center in the first place. DS |
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Nov 13 2007, 12:13 AM
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#291
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 30-December 06 Member No.: 10,493 |
Yeah, my bad. I was using "comlink" and to mean "comlink with a sim module". |
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Nov 13 2007, 05:19 PM
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#292
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
BBB 231
So only people in Full VR can be affected by Black IC attacks. BBB 228
So it is the simsense module and switching to full VR that makes you susceptible to Black IC attacks. BBB 209
So you don't need any DNI or simsense module to interact with AR. You just need some way of translating the signals from the wireless Mesh Network to something that your optic nerves can understand. This means that the vast majority of humanity can use the Matrix and get all the amazing benefits of this wonderful new technology without ever having to expose themselves to Black IC Attacks. I don't see why normal people need more protection from Black IC. They're Immune! As far as hackers in combat go I've started a thread where some people pointed out what hackers can do in combat so unless you REALLY want hackers to be able to do DIRECT damage to combat opponents don't use these house rules. |
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Nov 13 2007, 05:29 PM
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#293
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
That's not good enough for some people. In fact, it's apparently the number one reason why hackers are so tragically worthless in the game! If they can't Blackhammer you on a whim, what can they do? Nothing, that's what! :please: |
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Nov 13 2007, 05:31 PM
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#294
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Personally, I just don't understand the vehemence on either side of this particular argument (which is ironic, considering I'm all for blinding rage and biting sarcasm). What's-His-Fuck has some house rules he likes, and some other people don't like them. He and other people who want to house rule stuff can play with them, other people can think they're crap, and everyone can be happy.
If I were to propose a house rule that every street samurai got +1 damage with any implant weapon because I think they need the help...well...I'd understand that other people are free to take it or leave it. Likewise, if I proposed every spellcaster got to add Magic to their Drain resistance tests, or something (just to think of another "class" to give a boost to). A house rule's just a house rule. Folks can think that it's called for and balance, or they can not, and play the game as published. It's just a house rule. Why this particular one deserves a dozen pages of arguing (on top of at least one other thread that was who knows how long) is beyond me. |
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Nov 13 2007, 05:42 PM
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#295
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,326 Joined: 15-April 02 Member No.: 2,600 |
If I had to guess, I think its because the argument stopped being about a house rule and started being about Who's Right and Who's Wrong. Opinions aren't facts. That's why I lost interest in the thread. |
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Nov 13 2007, 06:09 PM
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#296
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
You know, neither do I. Although you should check both "sides" for vehemence. I've straight up told several posters that I just wasn't going to respond to them anymore because they weren't having a discussion they were just flaming me. Then they... kept flaming me. Some of these people flame me several times a day, and have been doing it for over a week. The original document said that people who didn't like the rules were welcome to not use them. Many of the people who started flaming me did so without even reading them. I find the whole thing perplexing in the extreme. Yes, the rules aren't for everyone. In fact, many of the people who like and use them would nonetheless have preferred a system which relied upon direct neural connections being difficult to achieve without cyberware. But I seriously don't understand why I am subjected to this abuse over and over again. Once people have said their piece that they don't like the material they can jolly well leave. I understand that they don't like my work. I think they have to understand that I don't care what they think at this point. Really, they are just insulting me to see themselves talk. -Frank |
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Nov 13 2007, 06:34 PM
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#297
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,245 Joined: 27-April 07 From: Running the streets of Southeast Virginia Member No.: 11,548 |
Well, thankfully I was not one of those folks. I said it earlier on and I'll say it again... I liked what I read of your house rules. The only part I disagree with is brain hacking (even after some of your posts asserting why it's essential). But you made your house rules modular enough that brain hacking can be excised / ignored and the rest used as written. That was an excellent decision on your part and one I'm grateful for. As for those who flame / rant on you, ignore them. The worst they can do is post words of vitriol and flame about you. Seeing them carry on so reminds of the old children's maxim "sticks and stone may break my bones but words can never hurt me". Their words can only have power over you if you choose to let them. In essence, their power is in your hands. |
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Nov 13 2007, 06:35 PM
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#298
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
You know, I was going to get all huffy and make some comment about asking for feedback on your ideas and then getting all abusive when people try to give it to you.
I thought the purpose of this thread was to talk about the premises and talk about which of the 3 options for the Nash Equilibrium was the most likely. We could talk about which things were reasonable, and what their further implications might be. But you know what? I was wrong. You didn't ask for feedback; I just went back and checked the first post. So, sorry to clutter this thread up with a bunch of useless discussion. For the record: I like #1) Computers are so amazingly awesome that people doing secret research consider the risk of being hacked worth it. I like that because that's exactly how it works today, and while I expect the risk of hacking would go up somewhat, I expect the amazing awesomeness of computers to go up more. I like everything about Frank's new system except the naked-brain interface thing, and the antenna-less chip interface thing, and the few things that I think stem directly from that. (even though I've only been talking about the naked-brain thing). I do find the antenna-less chip thing to be less implausible, but I get the impression that my reasons/opinions on the matter would not be appreciated. So there, I've said my piece, I've said which parts of the material I don't like, and now I'm going to jolly well leave. I do like your work, overall, and I am sorry that you feel insulted. |
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Nov 13 2007, 09:47 PM
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#299
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 698 Joined: 26-October 06 From: Iowa, United States Member No.: 9,720 |
I wasn't with the hacking the brain thing, but the more I think about it the more sense it makes.
Trodes can connect wirelessly to your commlink, which has a sim mod to process the VR/IC attacks. A sniffer program can intercept this connection (of course bounced off a close wireless node.. perhaps the other persons commlink) and then "spoof" a command in, or in this case Blackout/Blackhammer into the stream. So what is a trode net but a device that emits the waves read by the brain and output by the brain. Up the power on it and it would be highly effective at a range. So what you have here is your Star Wars Imperial force gun... IE "Set for stun" with Black Out. What does this take? Some form of amplified Trodes set in ray or area affect. This attachment for the commlink would be rated over the 12F range. Probably in 14F to fire Blackout, with a modified (hot-sim) to fire Black Hammer at 16F. I might recommend some toying with which skills to make the roll, instead of Cybercombat + Program, but otherwise I'd say run with it. How would a commlink stop this, I think would require either a trodenet, or helmet something to put a Biofeedback filter between your brain and outside influences. This isn't too much to ask, and actually provides a large bonus to Technomancers (natural Biofeedback Filter) and those who take the Natural Hardening quality (natural Biofeedback Filter bonus as well). Allow players to put ranks in Natural Hardening as well if they are paranoid. Now that I've finished writing this post, I'm fully on your side Frank, awesome idea. And with enough reasoning we can almost predict such devices appearing in Arsenal or even Unwired, if such happens you can grin at those who were flaming you on this. |
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Nov 13 2007, 09:51 PM
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Honestly, I'm entirely willing to have a lengthy discussion or even spirited debate about any of a number of subjects - including the rules I write. I'm willing to get feedback and I'll try to respond to it as appropriate. Your posts tend to the... ahem... long and I really don't have the time or the patience to go through all of them and respond to everything. But I will try. But lately a lot of the discussion has hinged on such wondrous trivialities as whether I personally am an idiot. I don't know why anyone thinks that this is a conversation I would be willing to have. Sure, I'll talk through devil's advocacy. I'll even appreciate people running through legitimate game critique from a mechanical or story perspective. But if people just want to rant at me about how signal propagation based on future physics "has to work" then there's a severe limit to how much I'm willing to care. -Frank |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 2nd December 2024 - 11:39 AM |
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