[X] My Assistant

[JAG]

Just how high can cyber take your stats these days?

I heard there were rules that bioware couldn't take you above normal maxims.

Apologies for the dim newbie question I just can't find me book atm. :silly:

[Sphynx]

There is no limit to cyberware (with the exception of the Cap on cyberlimbs). The only cap is on the gear itself, Ie: Rating 4 Muscle Replacement.

Sphynx

[kevyn668]

I thought there was a racial modified limit. In the character creation chapter of the SR3 core. Something about there's only so far the (meta)human body can be pushed. IIRC, its like racial max plus 3. IE. for humans all the attributes have ultimate (w/o the use of edges) max of 9.

Anyone back me/correct me?

[Sphynx]

That'd be the cyberlimbs you speak of, not cyberware in general. I think though that the only physical boosts are Muscle Aug anyhows, I can't remember anything else (other than BoneLacing, etc which doesn't raise the attribute, just the a portion of it for certain tests). And regardless of your initial strength, you can get +4 from that cyberware, though since it's not 'natural', it won't help in learning skills which uses the unaugmented score.

Sphynx

[JAG]

Im looking more at the body side of things where there are lots of augs to increase BOD

I've managed to get a quite healthy 21 but im wondering if its legal

[Solidcobra]

Let's see.....
Troll, max body, increased body edge: 13 body
Titanium skeleton: +2 body
That cyber that gave it's rating +1 body: +4 Body
The bioware that gave 1 extra body: +1 Body
Two Cyberlegs: +2 (i think) Body
that's 22 body right there, i'm sure you can think up more.....
Take a lot of geas and get max adept body, that's 28 body!
Surviving Deadly naval damage? HECK YEAH!

[kevyn668]

I'm pretty sure its not just the cyberlimbs. The chart had all of the standard races and listed all of the attributes including the ones that don't get raised by cyberlimbs--Willpower, etc. You get Muscle Replacement/ Aug lvl 4 but not if you already have str 6 (if you're a human) the reason they gave was typically flimsy so its probably a game balance thing.

I thought there was a post a while back, or maybe it was in a source book, about going to the street doc for an upgrade and you could ask for the 4 levels but would get three installed and the doc would pocket the difference.

[Ol' Scratch]

Most bioware implants cannot take you over your Attribute Maximum because they count as "natural." So a Human with Strength 6 could install Muscle Augmentation 4, but he'd only gain a +3 bonus from it.

[JAG]

[Austere Emancipa...]

Solidcobra: I'm pretty sure that the adept power Improved Physical Attribute cannot raise an attr over the racial attribute maximum, which is 18 in the case of the Exceptional Body Troll. The description of the Power only says that it can go over Racial Modified Limit.

All that ain't worth a damn against high-powered attacks anyway, since you won't score any successes anyhow. But it sure is darn cool having 20+ Body.

[Sphynx]

It's quite legal JAG, Body can go as high as you want. Kevyn has Bioware confused with Cyberware and the Doctor comment was on the FAQ under Bioware.

Don't forget SolidCobra, you get an additional +2 Body for playing a Ghoul, and GeneTherapy can raise your Maximum by one as well. The Bioware you refer to is the Superthyroid gland I believe, and you're missing the dermal sheathing for +4 body as well as the natural 1 for being a troll with dermal deposits and the additional +1 if you have the SURGE effect of excessive dermal deposits. :P

Sphynx

[CoalHeart]

SolidCobra you're close, so very close!

Troll has body a total max of 17 (18) Counting natrual Dermal armor.
Take Toughness edge for 17 (19)
Take Increased body edge for 18 (20)
Then add in Titanium bone lacing +2 for 18 (21)
Then add Supra Thyroid for 19 (22)
Then add Dermal Sheathing rating 3 for 19 (26)
Then add in a pair of Cyberlegs for 19 (28)
Then add in Adept Power there's no limit on max from there so with just a few levels of it you're into the 30s. Easy
Oh and throw some 'Boost Attribute' as well
Then further add in Increased Cyber Attribute (god knows how you hit the TN) for even more Body.
Then throw in being possessed by a spirit for +force
Then throw in a dose of magical compound that increases your body
Throw in Extra Dermal deposits from Surge
Extra body from Genetech
Extra body from being a ghoiul
Throw in a dose of Nitro. And you can be pumping out a body rating in the 40s or 50s.
I could be a bit low too.


Edit : Added in a few things I forgot :spin:

[Siege]

Yeah, I wanna see the Geasa required for an adept grafting all that into it's body.

After all that gets replaced, you don't have a gender anymore. You have a power current. :grinbig:

-Siege

[Austere Emancipa...]

Suprathyroid certainly doesn't add Body over the Racial Maximum, being a normal piece of Bioware. Right?

I think "That cyberware that gave it's rating +1 Body" refers to Dermal Sheath (since that's the only cyber with that effect), so he didn't really miss it, Sphynx. Good call on the others, though.

[Sphynx]

I wanna see the character who can afford to play the Magic Path Adept required to summon a spirit, have resources for all that cyberware, and the GM who allowed the Adept to Geasa the cyberware off (something that not a single GM I know would allow). Of course, getting more than 1 success on the Attribute Boost for Body would be amazing in itself, and there IS a max for Improved Attribute equal to your Magic Rating.

And even if you got all that, sorry, 40's or 50's is still impossible, but good to see someone's having fun trying. :P

Sphynx

[JAG]

What have I started ........................

:cyber:

[CoalHeart]

40s or 50s is possible. Not bloody likely. It would take more karma and resources than a great dragon. Or something like that.

If you sat down and added it all up. It is possible. No Gm in thier right mind would allow it or even allow you to get close enough. But by cannon it's possible!

Estimated cost if all cyber was Delta, all bio was cultured, and all geasa were taken and powerpoints and initiations... Astronomical.


I wonder how much 'Da Bod' would weigh, and how easily he could shrug damage.

[nezumi]

Yes, there is a rule about maximum limits and its SOMEWHERE in the main manual, towards the end, but I'm kicking myself because I can't find it. It said something along the lines of 'characters cannot under any circumstances go above their attribute maximum. Having a character with strength of 12 can be very unbalancing.' I remember it because it specifically mentioned strength and either 12 or 15, but grr.. can't find the line. Doesn't matter, everyone ignores it.

From what I read, bioware counts as your natural stat, so I don't believe it is hypothetically supposed to go above your attribute maximum either (it's like spending the karma to boost the stat, pretty much), however this is my own speculation, since iirc when you increase the stat after bioware, you count the bonus from bioware, and that's not the case for cyber (your natural strength is 2. You get a bio stength bonus of 1. You now pay karma to increase your strength to 4, not 3. With cyber, you would still pay karma to increase your strength to 3. Either way, you end up with a total strength of 4.)

The best stats I've gotten with a new character, following all the rules except no cultured bioware, is I think 22 (before drugs, too). I didn't try body, it's overdone : P I prefer to pack an assault cannon in my arms.

troll: +4?
special race: cyclops +1
exceptional attribute +1
adrenal pump +4
enhanced articulation +1 (+1 to all physical skills too)
muscle aug 4 +4
suprathyroid +1
nitro or whatever +1 (optional, if I don't mind ruining bioware)

Which is nice, because now I get to roll 33S with my dikoted spurs, or 22D with my dikoted polearm, and I roll 22 dice on all unarmed or melee combat tests. Also leaves me with enough essence that I could have either become an adept to boost strength more (I didn't because of the old bio rules) or I can get a ton of cyber. The funny thing is, I used all of his skill points to become a face : ) (notice, no obvious cyber and no need to carry big weapons!)

[Tanka]

[Siege]

I don't know if I would count the respirator/air filter/gas mask as "breathing" per se.

-Siege

[Kurukami]

Bioware not granting abilities above maxima? That severely decreases one of the selling points of Enhanced Articulation, then...

"Oh, sorry, but the fact that you're already quite intelligent and a world-class elven gymnast means that this implant won't make you any faster with reaction time..."

Chalk that up as a limitation that's going to be house-ruled away in my campaign.

[Siege]

Enhanced Articulation grants +1 Reaction and +1 die to Physical skills, yes?

How does that conflict with the "no exceeding racial max" limit on bioware?

-Siege

[CoalHeart]

Firstly, You're wrong Tanka.
You can't have dermal sheathing with more than 2 cyberlimbs, nor can you have bonelacing. Sorry!


Absolute max Limit body for a race is Natrual Max+1/2 natrual max Round up

So Troll has 11 body
So that's 11 + (11/2)
11+6= 17
Absolute max limit :)
now lets take Ghoul Cyclops with Exceptional attribute and genemodding! :)
thats 11(basetroll)+1(cycpops)+1(eceptionalattribute)+2(ghoul)+1(Genemod)
That gives you a Natrual max of 17. with an upper limit of 26!

Dam that's alot of natrual body before you even throw in more Cyber/Magic/Drugs.

Throw in some Surge for more dermal deposits, and whatever else you like.

I'm done with this stuff. I have lunch to smoke. Bye.

[nezumi]

Plus, I have as of yet to see a character with a 9 already in anything (for humans). If you have a 9 in two stats? Wow... Personally, for an ignored rule, it really isn't that bad. It just means if you're getting artwinkulation, don't bother buying that extra 1 level of quickness or intelligence enhancement and get some cyber instead.

[Tanka]

I'm going starting here, Coal. Therefore, the max at starting is 11 (12). The only rules I forewent was the maximum attribute at starting of 6 points allocated, followed by racial mods. The rest of the rules went out the door just to see how high you could get it starting. After that you can spend all the karma you want to raise it to the racially modified maximum.