The Dreaded Called Shot, To use, or not to use Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[kevyn668]

Last week I was running a fairly new group and one of the guys discovered the joys of the "head shot". After he did it successfully one of the other players asked "wow, we can do that?"
The first responded, "yeah, but I wouldn't do it too often or else he'll [me] use it on us."

Which made me think about it. Would I? These guys spend most of their time sluggin it out w/ gangs and sec guards. They're not quite "gang level" but not much above it, either. As such, the opposition is competent but rarely a match for the runners in a straight fight. So they have to use numbers.

Anyways, the thing is what do you folks think about using head shots on your players? I guess I feel that using head shots is taking it too far. (Unless your playing some Sniper scenario) Its like, I feel as a GM I should provide an entertaining and challenging adventure/story/campaign and useing the Head Shot moves me past "providing challenge" and straight into "trying to defeat" my players. (Which I reserve for when they really, really piss me off :D ) So, as it stands, my players and I seem to have an unspoken agreement: don't go buck wild with head shot thing and there won't be an enemy on the roof across the street.

[Siege]

Well, to take a "called shot" requires or at least implies a certain amount of skill.

Which means it won't be happening in the middle of a regular furball, but piss off a skilled marksman...

However, headshots tend to fall into the "Orbital Cow" group -- the same reason why GMs don't plant c-21 in players' cars or in the toilet bowl of their apartments.

Autokills by GMs tend to be less than popular among players.

-Siege

[Ol' Scratch]

Lemme guess, you're using the "head shots" that allow people to ignore armor, right? :please: Oy.

[Game2BHappy]

This thread sounds a little familiar. :)

[Crimson Jack]

I use head shots on my group, as appropriate for the enemies that they're going up against. For instance, if they're having a run-in with a street-level gang, all of the shots are being aimed at the parties torsos, more or less. I don't imagine that there's a lot of target practice going on with these gangs... if it is, it's probably bums or devil rats, right? But, say the group is going up against a crack team of Azzie wetwork ops. Different story.

Even then though, I try to keep it believable. If the Azzie black ops are in melee with the group, or engaged in close quarters combat of any type, perhaps its not the best to make called shots to the head. Maybe they fire one off at the onset. Maybe there's a sniper who needs to control the group. Using this once or twice in a game will get lots of mileage. You'll have a savvy group of Shadowrunners if you cap one of them unmercilessly once. It is true that it doesn't go over well, but it creates a sense of paranoia that you simply cannot beat in a game.

Shadowrun should feel deadly in my opinion. It doesn't really have a high fantasy feel to me, so I don't run it that way. Kill someone every once in a while. Offer some starting karma to the recently waxed's player. You'll get wide eyes and a much more careful group after that. If the story continues to rock, you probably shouldn't have too much trouble with the players resenting you for it. I've used it once in one of my games and while it shocked the group, no one had any hard feelings (even the bullet soaker) over it. They all know that they play in a deadly game so.....

[Raygun]

[Ol' Scratch]

Do problems arise when using the standard Called Shot rules? No. Players can choose to take a +3 (laser sight), +2 (smartlink), or +0 (smartlink-2) modifier to their shot to improve the Damage Level by +1. If the end result is a Deadly wound, there's your headshot. Targets are still considered armored, so flechette remains just fine for what it's intended for within the game. The rule is totally consistant with the majority of the other rules despite some people's inability to comprehend that the rules are abstract and work because of that.

Do problems arise when using the house ruled Called Shots that ignore armor? Constantly. Armor values become ridiculous and you get posts like the first one of this thread just for starters. You then have the fact that flechette ammo becomes utterly unstoppable (now it's +2 Damage Level at a +0 mod with a smartlink-2), and you have to voluntarily decide not to use it on most shots just because you're afraid the GM is going to do the same to you. All under the misguided and ill-conceived notion that they're introducing "realism" into the game, nevermind that it's wholly inconsistant with everything else in the game. That's just stupid and wrong. I take that back, it's not wrong -- it's admirable if you actually attempt to go the entire way and fix everything so it's all more realistic. But when you don't, it most definitely is wrong.

But go figure.

[Corywn]

My last headshot was on a courier who the group did not want to destroy the chip she was carrying. It was with a Pepper-Punch Capsule round, so very nonlethal. Nonetheless, it did the job, giving the courier a Deadly Stun contusion (and Light Physical rash from the Pepper Punch.)

Prior, I've done called shots to shoot the pistol out of a guard's hand, headshot to get rid of the leader of a gang (who had just prior shot me to 9 Physical boxes,) and several to avoid cover penalties (more accurately, targets seated in a car, I shot through the windows.)

[EDIT]I thought the "Bypass Armor" rules were a) chemicals only, and b) did not stage up damage. The net result remains the same with Flechette, so I'm not trying to negate what you're saying: Unarmored = +1 DL for Flechette, if you allow it for anything other than chemicals.[/edit]

[Raygun]

[nezumi]

I think there's a distinct difference between a called shot to avoid cover (that's technically not a called shot, its covered under the rules for 'cover'. Thats why there's that modifier to hit and all when you can't see most of the target.) using chemicals (covered in the rules specifically), shooting for a specific effect (kind of covered in the rules under shooting out wheels, but still a very different thing) and ignoring armor. All of those I'd say are perfectly fine EXCEPT for the last 1 with the current set of rules. The only question I'd ask about the gang leader is, did your called shot ignore armor? If so, the GM let you break the rules. Every other case, except perhaps for shooting the gun out of the hand, are perfectly legit.

[Ol' Scratch]

[Austere Emancipa...]

Yay! I'm admirable!

The last called shot in my ongoing game was... The invisible street sammy blowing out the brains of an unarmored, baseball bat wielding troll at 5 meters. No NPC so far has called a shot, but then the toughest NPCs they've faced in combat were average sec guards in CQB.

[Raygun]

[Ol' Scratch]

Why? It's a broken variable that adds nothing to the game. The standard rule works perfectly well for anyone with a half a wit of creativity in them and who realizes that a Deadly wound created by a standard Called Shot can be a head shot or anything else you want to describe it as. Anything else results in a glancing blow, a non-fatal headshot, or whatever else you feel like describing it as in regards to the shooter's intent. It in no way diminishes the fact that in Shadowrun, unlike D&D and many other games, the defender is bobbing around and weaving, meaning you don't necessarily hit what you're aiming at. It in no way ruins the abstract nature of armor. It in no way makes the Ares Viper Slivergun the ultimate sidearm. etc.

I have no problem modifying decent rules to make them work better for myself and my group, but this is not one of them. It's an artificial, outside rule that's horribly, horribly broken and easily prone to abuse without even really trying or even intending to do so.

[Raygun]

This is a hopeless waste of my time. Congrats, Funk. Tenacity = correctness.

[Saintgrimm]

To me, it did not look like the starting post was a whine. It merely asked your opinions on headshots on the PC's. He stated that he and his PCs have an unspoken agreement. They seem to be dealing rather well with it.

It's their houserule. If it works for them. Great.

As for me, and head shots. I rarely use a headshot, as many of my characters tend to be Non-lethal in nature. But I suppose, were I playing a PC, and I used them, I might expect retribution... or perhaps just a bad rep as a messy worker. Leave too many bodies, and no one likes you.

As a GM, I only use the hand of God routine...i.e. Sniper's, C-12, etc...when a point must be made. A big point. I try to compensate the player I do it to with some extra Karma/Cash so he can make a runner of close to the same power level. This is a very rare event, as most of the PC's either kill themselves off through stupid actions, or become very good, and learn not to piss off the wrong people.

Speaking of the Sniper Scenario. It used to be a favorite of mine that a sniper would hunt a group. And each time he shot he'd hit a different body part, working his way to the head. So, he might shoot PC 1 in the right leg. Two days later, they still haven't figured it out. He shoots PC 2 in the left leg. On and on. It was a good scenario. Scared the crap out of them until they figured out who he was and turned the tables on him. His target had been a Sniper on the SR team. Sort of a Sniper war.

[Ol' Scratch]

[RedmondLarry]

Ok, ok, ok. Enough already.

The SR3 book doesn't describe any option to allow Called Shots to bypass armor.

Cannon Companion allows an optional Advanced Melee rule that allows a Called Melee attack to only use armor in the targeted location. (CC p. 85)

Man and Machine rules for Cyber Limbs uses average Cyberware Armor (Body Plating) ratings across all 5 areas for normal shots, but for shots called to a specific location uses only the rating at that location. (M&M p. 35)

Man and Machine rules for ranged combat attacks where a drug is part of what is being delivered let a Called Shot only use impact armor in the targeted location. (M&M p. 106)

The Shadowrun FAQ extends the Called Shot rules of SR3 to let the shooter choose to raise damage level by 1 or to bypass armor.

Many disagree with some of these rules. We should all agree that these rules are there, and simply argue over whether we think GMs should include them, ignore them, or modify them for their games.

[mfb]

hey, funk, did a headshot kill your first and only love, or something? because if not, stop being such a dick about it.

[Ol' Scratch]

[mfb]

good boy.

[Fortune]

I do have to agree with Doc Wookie Cubed though. The new FAQ ruling is totally insane when applied to a canon game as-is. I also does turn a Slivergun into the Ultimate Firearm.

[Diesel]

Wow. Jesus Wow. I just read the FAQ. Jesus holy wow. That's one rule not in my game!

[RedmondLarry]

Good for you! It is smart to examine the rule, and to decide for yourself whether it makes sense to use in your game.

[mfb]

indeed. i like the part where you can completely ignore full-body milspec armor with a called shot. it's dripping with the crazy. mmmm, crazy.

once it includes a caveat that the targeted location must actually be unarmored, the FAQ ruling will please me fairly completely.