 Guaranteed takedown stunrods, Another annoying build question |
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 Nov 24 2007, 07:10 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 490 Joined: 29-August 06 From: Texas Member No.: 9,245  |
I was thinking something like 15s (ap/2)-4 which gives a maximum unaugmented max of 4 dice to armor value. in anything less than a full sec suit with a riot shield the target is pretty well hosed. now add in annoyances like bone lacing and mystic armor and tolerances go higher , still with 15 boxes of stun, most anything is going down.
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Nov 24 2007, 07:17 AM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
And with overflow how often will they be DEAD?
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Nov 24 2007, 07:20 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 490 Joined: 29-August 06 From: Texas Member No.: 9,245 |
its a stun wep, sure they might suffer some surface burns, or at worst possible a heart attack, but I am sure defibrillation is passe'
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Nov 24 2007, 07:23 AM
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#4
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
What do you need these for? What role do they fill in a campaign world that regular stun weapons don't? Why would anyone still use regular stun weapons? Does the game really need automatic one-shot-KO stuff that badly?
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Nov 24 2007, 07:36 AM
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#5
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
You missed P153? "If the damage is Stun, it carries over into the Physical column. For example, if a character with a Stun Condition Monitor of 11 boxes who has already taken 6 boxes takes another 8-box Stun hit, that character’s player would fi ll in the last 5 boxes in the Stun column, and then fi ll in 3 boxes in the Physical column. If the character has already taken damage in the Physical column, treat the excess Stun damage as additional Physical damage and add it to the existing damage." And successes add to the roll, so an average cop rolling average will do 7 physical, so knocking them unconscious and into the ICU in one shot. Cool. And on a good roll, bam, instant death. |
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Nov 24 2007, 08:52 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 5-February 05 Member No.: 7,053 |
No thanks.
Existing stun weapons are extremely scary for even a moderately competent user. So much so that I've seen builds where they're used exclusively, with a knife on hand to stab them afterwards if a more final solution is desired. I think they're good. Let's leave them alone. |
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Nov 24 2007, 11:20 AM
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#7
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
This has a better expected physical damage than most close combat weapons, especially if you don´t have extreme strength.
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Nov 24 2007, 12:05 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300 |
Broken. Stun weapons are too good already. 8S damage is nasty and far more effective than anything but elephant rifles (with XX) or HMGs.
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Nov 24 2007, 12:38 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
I'm not sure if it's included in SR4, but there is the insta-coronary stunstick, the AZ-150. I see no reason why it won't appear in Arsenal.
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Nov 24 2007, 02:24 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 19 Joined: 26-October 07 Member No.: 13,895 |
Holy drek, it just occurred to me. What happens if you fire stick-n-shock ammo from burst fire? I guess I'm going to have to assume that it just adds to the DV per usual burst rules rather than adding cumulative stun damage.
Still a long, narrow burst of stick-n-shock ammo has the potential to do 11S before hits are factored in. On a gas vent 3 weapon, with a stock that shot is made at a -1. :| |
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Nov 24 2007, 06:02 PM
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#11
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
regular bullets don't do separate damage in a burst; i dont see why shock weapons should.
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Nov 24 2007, 07:18 PM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
Yes, it does just add to the DV, which is why I've always advocated stick and shock in machine pistols for a decent balance of firepower and concealment. Another fun thing to do is to load up two streetline specials with stick and shock and carry them in hidden arm slides/concealable holsters as a trump card. Stealthiest firearm available short of cyberguns and the raecor sting, yet you still get to pack a 6DV w/ AP and disorientation bonuses. The trick is not to fire them at the same time, but rather to fire one and then the other, handily bypassing the dicepool splitting AND the single shot nature of the firearm at the cost of a mild dicepool penalty to the offhand (and if you have ambidexterity that's no problem either). A couple of Defiance EX shockers is fun too.
Anyway though, if you really want a super effective but non-lethal stunrod, upping the DV isn't the answer. You'd be better served by modifying the threshold and duration of the incapacitation effect inflicted by electrical damage. Boosting the Will+Body test threshold from a 3 up to 5 or 6 would make it an incredibly hard test to make for anything short of a troll tank with appropriate armor mods to make. Frankly though, were I to GM I'd never let such a weapon within a city block of my table. |
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Nov 24 2007, 07:41 PM
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#13
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...agreed. My Matrix Specialist has a Shock Hand and uses S&S Rounds. Took an Orc guard down way too easily with one S&S shot in the last session. It's the secondary effect which is really nasty for if they don't make that roll you basically have them down for the count. Hit 'em gain while they're helpless (with the shock hand) & it's "good night Irene". The only thing I can see a more powerful stun weapon for is taking down Trolls or other critters with a high body. ...one thing though I thought stun weapons were all pretty much 6S -1/2 impact armour. Which one is 8S? [Edit - addendum] @Whipstitch: Are you sure the DV stacks? We have been doing it as separate 6S attacks each of which have to be resisted independently. Still very nasty as a three round burst (or 4 if using a Fabuki) will put most people down & possibly even into overflow I like the Streetline idea, Might have to go that route for the Short One (#60). Can't wait till the WW Infiltrator shows up again, that would be a real nice stealth weapon loaded with S&S. |
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Nov 24 2007, 07:44 PM
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#14
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
This is roughly as overpowered as a troll with a bow.
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Nov 24 2007, 08:31 PM
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#15
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
If you mean "stacks" as in each bullet in the burst gets to deal 6DV, no. Stick and shock simply replaces the standard, unmodified damage value of the weapon and then the usual rules take it from there. And yes, the ol' Cherry Blossom Storm is pretty sweet, but I rarely use it. I generally prefer the Hammerli 620S w/ stick and shock because it's the best light pistol for those with small dicepools. Easily concealed and it has a smartlink, heavy pistol range and a gas vent, which is pretty darn sweet; cracking off a shot and hoping you get lucky can be just as effective as using a Take Aim action due to the dice pool penalty for defending against previous attacks. Only thing that sucks about it is the small clip. |
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Nov 24 2007, 08:45 PM
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#16
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...interesting, because the Hammerli is what Violet (#61) primarily uses for S&S as well. Yeah the small clip is the only weakness but the improved range & built in Smartlink (a steal for the price) makes up for it. Especially nice when you are the first one into a building because you had to spring the maglock.
She usually loads her Fabuki with EXEX for if she has to pull that, it means things are just got hairy; 8DV -1 AP, pretty rockin'. ...sweet kid. :grinbig: |
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Nov 26 2007, 02:58 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 2-November 06 From: Bozeman, MT Member No.: 9,762 |
Is the Sakura Fubuki really a 4 round burst? I don't remember seeing that mentioned in the rules (yeah it has 4 barels, but I assumed that that was just some weirdness on the devs' parts) I assumed it had regular short burst lengths.
Edit: Oh, and to be on topic, this does seem a little overpowered. Defiance EX will take lots of stuff down, and or leave them majorly hurting. Anyone else notice that in its description it mentions contacts for meele combat, but is cheaper than the Stun Baton? (less than 1/2 price and better damage). KK: The Defiance EX Shocker is the taser that does 8S(e) -1/2. Edit2: @Tarantula, I don't think its quite as overpowered as a Troll with a bow, augmented strength, injection arrows, narcoject, and DMSO (yeah its not out yet, but I'm eagerly expecting Arsenal.) This combination can easily yeild: 15P + 10S(Toxin), sure they get their full armor --- against the physical damage. Of course it does cost something like 100 :nuyen: per round, but I expect you'll only need one. |
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Nov 26 2007, 03:10 AM
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#18
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
No, it's similar to a mini Metalstorm weapon. It has four barrels, with 3 bullets loaded one behind the other in each barrel. When the gun is fired, one barrel shoots it's payload, consisting of a 3-round burst. |
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Nov 26 2007, 04:27 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 2-November 06 From: Bozeman, MT Member No.: 9,762 |
That's kinda what I thought. (tho I thought that perhaps it could use its vaunted electronic firing to fire 3 barrels at once, but I realized that it didn't really matter) Anyone who thought it fired 4 round bursts, I'd like to hear why you thought (or think) so.
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Nov 26 2007, 09:00 AM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 21-September 07 Member No.: 13,357 |
I personally don't like "Stick-n-shock" ammunition... Tiny Holdout bullets that have the same capacity to deliver electricity damage as a dedicated-by-design taser dart?
I am happy that none of my players have asked to purchase these rounds, but if they did I think I'd make them do a base damage of 1 less damage box than the original round but with electricity damage and armor as given. YMMV ::shrugs:: Arashi |
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Nov 26 2007, 06:42 PM
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#21
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
I thought the description said 10 bullets per barrel x 4 barrels. [Ammo: 40(ml)] We've been playing it as a four shot narrow burst, 1 round from each barrel. |
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Nov 26 2007, 07:32 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
and
No mention of four round bursting, and it holds 40 bullets so no 3 rounds per barrel thing. Chris |
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Nov 26 2007, 09:32 PM
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#23
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
it does specify *short* bursts though, which are 3 round.
no indication is made that all bullets would be from one barrel or from 3 separate barrels. |
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Nov 26 2007, 09:51 PM
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#24
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...basically that was where we were a bit confused at first & determined by it's configuration, that it must fire 4 rounds simultaneously, 1 from each of the stacked barrels (hence why you cannot do a wide burst with it).
Most of the RL metalstorm concepts I've seen employ a single barrel. If the Fabuki fired all the rounds for a burst from one barrel, there would be little little advantage gained from it's design. It would then do just as well to be a slightly beefier version version of something like the Fichetti Security but with the burst fire capability. I think this topic came up a while back... AH? Frank? Synner? Raygun? any thoughts on this? |
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Nov 26 2007, 09:57 PM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
well, i'm out of here... no way am i sitting through DSF gun thread =P
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