 Shadowrun without Earthdawn as past, Quick Poll |
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 Dec 4 2007, 10:15 PM
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#1
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,328 Joined: 28-November 05 From: Zuerich Member No.: 8,014  |
Simple question: Does the Earthdawn Link define Shadowrun, or could it be replaced with some other "4th World" as a past for the setting, without losing what makes it Shadowrun?
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Dec 4 2007, 10:17 PM
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#2
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
TECHNICALLY . . SR defines Earth-Dawn, as Earth-Dawn is what Episodes 1 to 3 are for Star-Wars . . a made after the fact prequel . .
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Dec 4 2007, 10:19 PM
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#3
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...may the plascrete brick tossing begin (wait, let me put up my physical barrier first). :grinbig:
[edit] gosh darnit, Stahlseele, you got in ahead of me... :grinbig: |
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Dec 4 2007, 10:31 PM
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#4
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
yay! i beat THE kyoto kid! *glee* ^^
by the way, i would have voted for NO, just because i like the backstory, even if it means dealing with Immoral Elves <.< . . |
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Dec 4 2007, 10:47 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,069 Joined: 19-July 07 From: Oakland CA Member No.: 12,309 |
Earth Dawn was my first RPG love. Just have to put that out there.
That said, almost anything you include from the fourth world IS home brewed anyway. It is hard cannon that the mana cycle did crazy reality hackery some you can put in almost anything you want. IMG all Earth Dawn links are only easter eggs for the devoted. |
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Dec 4 2007, 10:53 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 8-November 04 Member No.: 6,817 |
Well, if your "other" generic fantasy 4th world fit with all the SR references to the earlier ages, then it would still be SR. But that would make the homebrew fantasy a lot like earthdawn..
So that's a no |
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Dec 4 2007, 11:40 PM
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#7
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Earthdawn has the benefit that it fits nicely into the backstory of Shadowrun...but from an objective standpoint, it doesn't really, really matter.
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Dec 4 2007, 11:52 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 830 Joined: 3-April 04 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 6,215 |
Honestly, how many people go around talking about the 4th world all the time anyway?
Mr. Johnson: "I'm in the market for some bloodthirsty mercenaries with grenades to quietly obtain my competition's prototype. Also, did you know that our only hope against the Horrors is an immortal elf? He comes from the 4th world." Runners: "Well, how much would we get pai--Did you say immortal elf? Tell us, did this 4th world have any societies, and how does this affect Ehran/Lofwyr relations?" It's asinine. The stuff can be true or not true in most games, and it really doesn't affect things either way, if you're playing a game about Shadowrunners, and not some ridiculous soap opera about rich people. |
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Dec 5 2007, 12:06 AM
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#9
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Nice try, Starfox.
Well, there is a german RPG that was derived from Shadowrun, objectively and consequently removing every Earthdawn reference and implication, then cleaning up logical inconsisties. Let's just say it was not Shadowrun, even though it included orks, elves, magic, corporations and shooting people in the face for money. It's the common thing about goind back in history and changing things... |
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Dec 5 2007, 12:08 AM
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#10
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Was Shadowrun still Shadowrun BEFORE Earthdawn was created?
But then again, I tend to really butcher the Earthdawn Canon, especially considering that the only topic I'm really interested in from that gameline is the Horrors, in my campaigns the Fourth World looks more like a post-apoc vision of Disney's Atlantis viewed through a looking glass darkly. But then again, with the exception of when the Runners stumble onto a tainted Kaer or some other Fourth World artifact it really doesn't matter what the past was like, the 2070s are all about what is going down this very nano-second, not relics of the distant past, I mean who really fragging cares about what happened last year, much less several thousand years ago... |
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Dec 5 2007, 12:09 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Rotbart: Was ist das?
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Dec 5 2007, 12:11 AM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,629 Joined: 14-December 06 Member No.: 10,361 |
This should be included as a disclaimer to every thread about Immortal elves and Great Dragons. |
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Dec 5 2007, 12:17 AM
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#13
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
If you meant 'What german RPG?' - it was called X-Punk. For a reason. Basically, it was more like Cyberpunk - with magic and genetically engineered metahumans.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Big D's Will, as well as other related SBs mostly a plothook to affect runners? |
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Dec 5 2007, 12:30 AM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
That's a new one on me.
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Dec 5 2007, 12:41 AM
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#15
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Grew from the SFD (Street Fighter's Digest) - a supplement to beat some sense into old SR weapon rules.
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Dec 5 2007, 12:45 AM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,328 Joined: 28-November 05 From: Zuerich Member No.: 8,014 |
Sure it was, but - you don't need to have Earthdawn as a background to use Dunkelzahn's will in game. It's not as if they stated "and this is that from ED, that is this from ED" - knowledge of Earthdawn was not required to run any SR adventure. Which is my point - one can run SR without using ED, and without changing it significantly in a way that affects 99% of all campaigns. To sum it up: ED does not really matter at all other than serving as possible fluff for some magical threats. Even all the moving and plotting of immortals and Dragons do not need ED specific motivations. |
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Dec 5 2007, 12:49 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 12-October 03 From: Germany, Regensburg Member No.: 5,709 |
Surely "forgetting" Earthdawn will not affect most players. Some details perhaps, but imho the bugs (for example) had a bigger influence on the 6. World than the horrors - and even the immortal Elves could be erased without problems. But the big question is: Would this still be Shadowrun? That depends on how you define "Setting X equals Setting Y".
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Dec 5 2007, 01:00 AM
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#18
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Just SR happens to look the way today it does because of ED and vice versa. If you exchange ED to a generic fantasy system or no fantasy at all, you get a generic cyberpunk system instead of SR. Nothing wrong with that, it has been done.
You just need the knowledge from it to understand some of them. The Will, Harlekin and even SotF mostly make no deeper sense without. Of course, if playing 'no answers' anyway, it doesn't make much of a difference. But that's not the question asked in the poll. That's just "Do you need to know everything about the background of a RPG to play it?" Which the answer to is obviously No. Changing the history however will change the background. |
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Dec 5 2007, 01:20 AM
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#19
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,328 Joined: 28-November 05 From: Zuerich Member No.: 8,014 |
Shadowrun is shaped by the history detailed in Shadowrun - the history of the 6th world. The "4th world" is not crucial. Delete it, and it's still Shadowrun. Replace it with generic fantasy with demons and it's the same outcome. |
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Dec 5 2007, 01:25 AM
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#20
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I just tend to ignore the whole bleedin' mess altogether. Yes SR was still SR Before ED was around. I particularly enjoyed the Native American influence of those early "pre(post?)-ED" days. |
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Dec 5 2007, 01:32 AM
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#21
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Actually, not even that... it builds on real-world history, too.
The mayan mana cycle is, as it's mentioned in the 6th world history. And if you define that 4th world different to Earthdawn, Shadowrun would look differently. That's what every time-travel scifi is about. ;) |
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Dec 5 2007, 02:18 AM
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#22
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Meh, I seem to remember that Big D wasn't all that impressed by the Mayan Calandar, as for the rest, I just have to disagree, as long as your Fourth World has Mana Cycles, Dragons, Immortal Elves, and Demons from beyond that can only cross over at the peak of the Mana Cycle the actual details are just so far removed from the Sixth World to even be important.
Many of us played Shadowrun before those very details were even set in stone and it was still Shadowrun, and I'm fairly sure that many people play Shadowrun without having a clue about the details behind Earthdawn. |
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Dec 5 2007, 03:07 AM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,326 Joined: 15-April 02 Member No.: 2,600 |
I never really got into ED, and having played SR since before it was introduced my feeling is its not all that crucial. (I also always thought ED was the 2nd Cycle, rather than the 4th, because that's what my SR GM at the time told me when ED was coming out, and if I was misinformed, I've been misinformed for about 15 years even though I can't honestly say it would make any difference one way or the other.) Personally, I never really saw the point of ED as a history of this world since this world already has a history, and it has legends and myths and weirdness. In fact, most (if not all) of the fantastic elements in SR came out of the legends, myths and weirdness of the real world, so adding in a completely different backstory seemed a little strange.
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Dec 5 2007, 06:41 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 609 Joined: 13-August 07 Member No.: 12,615 |
Myself, I like the ED/SR link. But essential? No.
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Dec 5 2007, 07:38 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
SFD was in incredibly bloated ebook - ambitious yet misguided (I was briefly involved as a proof-reader). Basically it was a gun catalog but also contained a complete damage/combat rules replacement. Some of that (mainly the guns) was really good stuff. But there was also a lot of bad stuff: Some sub-par fiction pieces (e.g. a both blatant and amateurish Black Hawk Down rip-off set in the barrens) and lengthy, totally uniteresting for the average player, discussions about ballistics and firearms mechanics. The authors' premise was that, in order play a gun-using character right™, you had to know exactly how firearms worked in real life! The whole thing was about 500 pages, IIRC... The authors originally planned to have that book released as an official third-party SR book due to a misunderstanding that soon fell apart (for-free-fanstuff vs. commercial product). In addition, some of them were very active and blunt in critisizing virtually all aspects of SR on FanPro D's official forums - their core "discussion" strategy being to accuse everyone not of their opinion of playing the game "wrong™" or simply being stupid. They made some good points but those were usually buried under immediate flamewars caused by their arrogant and condescending posting style. When the whole SR-supplement angle fell through the SFD authors declared their plan to expand it into a whole RPG called "X-Punk" that could actually be described as "as close a copy of SR as we can get away with - but with our superior™ rules". |
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