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> Physical focus?, why not?
wind_in_the_ston...
post Dec 5 2007, 06:29 AM
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You can enchant technological devices. So you could enchant a cyber-arm as a weapon focus, and then implant it to gain an advantage in unarmed combat. Or you could enchant it as a power focus, and then implant it. Theoretically, you could enchant a vehicle as a focus. But what kind of bonus would you gain from attacking with it as a weapon focus? Would you be able to use the bonus dice on a drive test when attempting to hit someone/something? Probably not. But at least spirits wouldn't have immunity to being rammed by that car. ;-)

So why don't we have general physical foci? A sword is enchanted so that you may wield it more effectively. Why not a car so that you may drive it more effectively? Or the obvious item - a gun? Lockpicks? Well... too many individual items. Most such enchantable items will fall outside of the shadowrunning profession. A bowling ball, jugglers' balls, a paintbrush, drumsticks, a violin, maybe skates... As for the bowling ball idea, what's this thing where the focus must remain in contact with the user in order to be effective? The ball's trajectory is set as soon as the ball is loosed from your hand. Would the ball suddenly veer off-course because it left contact with the adept? Same idea for the gun. Why no gun foci? Become one with the gun.

I think this is a holdover from earlier editions, where weapon foci added damage. For this reason when a projectile left contact with the user, it would no longer be active, and would no longer get the bonus. In SR4, the only bonus dice are for the initial use of the skill.

Of course, you couldn't do anything with these foci in astral space. "Sure, you can take your GMC Bulldog focus into astral space, but you can't start it up."

So what do you think? Any reasons why we shouldn't do this? And what a non-weapon physical focus cost?
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Zhan Shi
post Dec 5 2007, 06:36 AM
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The Attunement: Item adept metamagic technique would provide most, if not all of those benefits. See Street Magic, p. 54.
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hyzmarca
post Dec 5 2007, 06:38 AM
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If you enchant a vehicle as a weapon focus the bonus dice should apply toward picking it up and using it as a club. Which makes a Troll with a Weapon Focus motorcycle very cool. But your ramming should bypass Immunity to Normal Weapons.
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Kyoto Kid
post Dec 5 2007, 06:54 AM
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...just wait till the Short One (#65...woohoo! I can get Senior Discounts now) attunes her Warhawks. Who needs one of those confounded smartlink gizmos? :grinbig:
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Stahlseele
post Dec 5 2007, 10:08 AM
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why not?
because those things are hellishly expansive in both money and karma and things like bikes/cars tend to get stolen and/or damaged/destroyed if used in the wrong way . . for example the troll using his enchanted bike to hit someone with would most likely destroy the bike that way . .
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hyzmarca
post Dec 5 2007, 10:46 AM
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If you enchant a Gimp suit as a weapon focus and then put an elf in it and wield that gimp-suited Elf like a claymore, what would be the damage code? Would the damage caused by the Elf's body bypass Immunity to Normal Weapons? If you got the Elf to project with you, could you have him wear the suit in Astral Space or would you be stuck using it as a strangulation tool when projecting?
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WeaverMount
post Dec 5 2007, 01:44 PM
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About attunement

QUOTE
Attunement, however, provides no bonus when the item is
controlled through an electronic interface (be it digital, VR,
AR, or DNI
),


Doesn't that rule out every way to use a com-link ... that they will let you bond with for a scant 10 Karma??

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Sponge
post Dec 5 2007, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (WeaverMount)
About attunement

QUOTE
Attunement, however, provides no bonus when the item is
controlled through an electronic interface (be it digital, VR,
AR, or DNI
),


Doesn't that rule out every way to use a com-link ... that they will let you bond with for a scant 10 Karma??

The way I read it, you can still use the keyboard/physical interface on your commlink (assuming it's not implanted) and get your attunement bonus for AR tasks. Whatever you're doing with the commlink may be through AR or digital means, but your interface with the commlink is your fingers on the keyboard (or other physical interaction), so it does qualify.

Working in VR, by definition, uses a DNI instead of physical interaction to operate the commlink and wouldn't get the attunement bonus.

DS
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wind_in_the_ston...
post Dec 7 2007, 03:55 AM
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Heh. Good fun. :D

I wasn't very serious about the vehicle as a weapon focus. I can see where, using a strict interpretation of the rulebook, you'd have to use a combat skill if you were going to try to hurt someone with a weapon focus.

QUOTE
because those things are hellishly expansive in both money and karma


Sure, but eighteen karma for one more die when you raise your skill from a 5 to a 6, or three karma for one more die when you bond with a rating 1 weapon focus (no reach)? I'll pay the cash if I've got it. Aside from our characters using them, a violin focus would still be cheaper than a Stradivarius.

QUOTE
If you got the Elf to project with you, could you have him wear the suit in Astral Space or would you be stuck using it as a strangulation tool when projecting?


Since astral forms don't have windpipes, I would think you'll need the elf to project so the gimp suit retains enough rigidity to whack an astral form. But I could be wrong.


Anyway, if I were to house-rule such a thing, how should I do it? Let's say any item can be made a focus as per weapon foci. And instead of reach providing the karma add, use either reach or its object resistance threshold, whichever is higher?
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Karaden
post Dec 7 2007, 04:49 AM
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My guess for the lack of ranged weapon foci is that it is the foci directly acting upon the aura/spirt of whatever it is attacking that causes the boost, it isn't that the foci is nudging itself slightly to the left so you hit better. This is why ranged weapons such as guns can't be enchanted like that.

Now, thrown weapons like a knife or something, sure, I'd give you that. Heck, I'd even allow for bullets, but it would be a one shot thing, and so very much not worth it.

As for the other objects, violin, lockpicks, sure, you could enchant them, but they'd only be any better at beating things with. A weapon focus violin isn't going to sound any better or be any easier to play, but it will hurt a bit more when you smash it over someone's head. *edit* great for all those violinists that work in the rougher bar.
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wind_in_the_ston...
post Dec 9 2007, 04:47 AM
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QUOTE (Karaden)
My guess for the lack of ranged weapon foci is that it is the foci directly acting upon the aura/spirt of whatever it is attacking that causes the boost, it isn't that the foci is nudging itself slightly to the left so you hit better.

Do you mean that it is acting on the victim, rather than the wielder? I'm not sure that's the case, since it's bonded to the wielder and not the victim.

True about the violin, :D , but I was talking about foci that enhance abilities other than combat ones.
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Karaden
post Dec 9 2007, 06:55 AM
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True, it is bounded to the user and not the victim (Which would suck) But I still guess that it has something to do with the interaction of the auras of the victim and the weapon foci. The weapon foci only works for the person it is bound to because the bound persons aura is what 'powers' the weapon foci (which is why any of them generally need to be touching the person to work)

As for a new class of foci that improves relevent skills of whatever the item is used for.. don't know. Foci seem to, for the most part, impart added power to a user, not make them smarter or more skilled (Sure, they get more casting dice, but it is because they can just pour in extra energy, not because they can concentrate better with the foci)

For this reason I don't see magic being able to improve a person's skills. Sure, they could press more vigourusly on the violin strings, but they wouldn't nessecarily sound any better.

Of course this is a matter entierly up to the GM, but I for one would be very hesitent to allow it for that IC reason, and the metagame reason of not needing more things to stack up the modifiers.
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Kingmaker
post Dec 9 2007, 08:19 PM
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I'd stay away from foci that give bonuses to mundane skills, because then you could end up with a team of shadowrunners looking like characters from some other games, kitted out with their trench coat of concealment, that grants +4 DP on all stealth checks, and stuff like that. *shudder*
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Ryu
post Dec 10 2007, 10:38 PM
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Slight clerical error there, I would absolutely end up with such a team. No joke.
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Stahlseele
post Dec 10 2007, 10:41 PM
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just curious, aside from magical thingies, obviously . . what is there that can't be done by tech to get more dice?
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Karaden
post Dec 10 2007, 11:37 PM
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Hmm... no, I'm fairly certain that anything at all can get at least a small bonus from tech.
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Karaden
post Dec 10 2007, 11:40 PM
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To add a bit to my last statement..

There is a nanite that gives a bonus to all logic based things, and one that gives it to all intuition based. Reflex recorder can give a bonus to any physical or weapon skill. And there are plenty of things (Pharamones for example) that can give a bonus on any of your social tests. The only possable one I can think of is Instruction, though the person you are teaching can get a bonus. Not sure if pharamones work because I don't know if instruction counts as social or not, even though it is in the social skill section.
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Narse
post Dec 11 2007, 05:58 AM
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Can you get a bonus to gunnery via tech? Remember its a Vehicle Skill... (based on Agi, so I guess Muscle Toner et. al. would work, unless your jumped in [in which case you have to use sensor based gunnery])
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Karaden
post Dec 11 2007, 06:09 AM
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Hmm.. ya, maybe gunnery, although I'd imagine you could talk most GMs into allowing reflex recording to work for it.

Other then that and muscle toner... well... ah, if your dived you can get a bonus from the control rig booster thing, forgot what it was called exactly. Not to mention being rigged into a vehicle gives you bonuses, which is from the tech, so you still get stuff from tech on that too.
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