 FASA video game rights back where they belong |
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 Dec 24 2007, 11:50 PM
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#101
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 30-October 07 Member No.: 13,963  |
Edit to nix the cross-posting. Arguments in the other thread.
This post has been edited by Black Irish: Dec 25 2007, 12:02 AM |
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Dec 25 2007, 02:45 AM
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#102
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
not to mention, Eve's hook doesn't involve a familiar game world. if Lofwyr is going to be killed, everybody who plays is going to want to be able to do it. if only five guys get to do it, ever, that's a big "fuck you" to everybody who isn't those five guys. good-bye hook, good-bye player base. |
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Dec 25 2007, 04:06 AM
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#103
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Hey, you know, I think Shadowrun is all about that big "fuck you" to everybody who isn't the right five guys for each given situation.
~J |
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Dec 25 2007, 07:36 AM
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#104
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
exactly. that's part of why i'm saying an SR MMO would either not be fun, or not be true to the setting. because you can't say "fuck you" to all but five of your player base and honestly expect anybody who isn't those five guys to stick around.
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Dec 25 2007, 08:21 AM
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#105
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
You get 60,000 people slapping themselves for not having the guts to try it themselves. Then 30,000 of them get killed trying to take out Hestaby the next week. I think that's about perfectly SR....
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Dec 29 2007, 02:01 AM
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#106
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 26-February 02 From: UCAS Member No.: 1,015 |
If this is a reward (and one might say that it is more significant as an admission of failure on Microsoft's part) it is the booby prize. An ironic reward for Microsoft would be if the ridiculous Shadowrun FPS had sold so well that FASA Studio could make a sequel. Instead the game bombed and FASA Studio has been dissolved. While Microsoft is technically "making money" on their deal with Smith & Tinker you can be sure that it is peanuts compared to the money they are leaving on the table by not correctly exploiting the FASA IP themselves. I would also like to take this opportunity to tell anyone who wants to see a Shadowrun MMO happen: I wish I could hate you to death. That is all. |
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Dec 29 2007, 10:07 PM
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#107
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
even if i agreed, it still wouldn't be fun for the 60k players who didn't try for fear of failing, nor would it be fun for the 30k who tried and failed. this supports my position that an SR MMO cannot be both fun and true to the SR setting, unless one does away with almost every MMO convention that exists. |
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Dec 29 2007, 10:50 PM
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#108
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Most people of the baby boomer generation remember where they were the day a lone gunman [on the grassy knoll] shot down John Kennedy. People of my generation remember where we were the day a lone magician firefielded Lord British to death.
He got banned, by the way. The assasination of Lord British has one thing in common with the assasination of Lofwyr. It shouldn't happen. Lofwyr is a statless ultimate NPC. He is a plot device. He shouldn't be killable in an MMO under normal circumstances. Lord British died because Richard Garriott forgot to turn on his invincibility. It was a purely OOC error. It is certainly possible to program the game such that Lofwry's "I win" flag is set automatically. |
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Dec 29 2007, 11:21 PM
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#109
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i could be wrong, but isn't UO also the game where NPCs ran around and led their own lives, and if you wanted to get a quest or turn one in, you had to actually track down the NPC wherever it was in its daily routine? as i recall, that behavior was eventually removed--questgiving NPCs sat in one spot, so they could be easily located by players.
this illustrates an import facet of MMOs. if you ask most people who want an MMO for their favorite setting, be it SR or Star Trek or My Little Pony or whatever, they'll tell you that they want a complete, living world. they'd think the idea of NPCs who run around doing their own thing all the time would be pretty cool. in the event, however, almost nobody actually wants that. people who play MMOs want, in large part, the same thing that people who play other types of game want--to have fun playing. that basically means that they want the world to be about them. Blizzard understands this; that's why lore figures like Thrall and Illidan are either questgivers or raid bosses. hell, even Matrix Online got that much right--Morpheus talked to players all the time, giving them quests and stuff, up until he was killed by a cloud of flies wielding a pistol (no, i'm not kidding). it's a catch-22. if you allow characters to interact with Lofwyr all the time (either by getting quests from him or killing him), you cheapen the experience. Lofwyr, Harlequin, and the rest stop being cool and special. if you lock the majority of players away from the big names, though--if you don't let them get quests from Harlequin, or down Lofwyr every week--people won't feel like they're playing SR. because as cheap as it would be to let everybody talk to Harlequin, or let everybody loot Lofwyr, that's the sort of thing that the LCD equates to partaking in a given setting. |
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Dec 30 2007, 12:02 AM
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#110
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I remember in one of my favorite text-based MMORPGs Gemstone:Dragonrealms a time when a storyline villain basically made people's heads explode at random by experimenting with ritual sorcery. One moment you'd be minding your own business, the next your head would explode for no apparent reason. He also made a volcano erupt, instantly killing countless PCs who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Losts of people activly looked for the guy. Some people found clues randomly for no apparent reason. I stopped playing before it was complete, but it was a damned fun storyline. You don't need direct interaction with absurdly powerful NPCs, but their presence must be felt regularly. In the case of the Matrix Online, it is reasonable for the players to talk to Morpheus, given his role in the setting. In Shadowrun, it is reasonable for the players to be bystanders while Lofwyr does huge world-changing stuff due to his position in the setting. |
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Dec 30 2007, 01:06 AM
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#111
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
that makes the players spectators. players don't want to be spectators, they want to be active participants in everything.
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Dec 30 2007, 02:23 AM
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#112
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Lost Vikings was awesome! Sadly, I can't describe in what way, except that it belongs in the side-scrolling hall of fame, just a few steps below Contra. I'd still love to see and SR video game that's more of a mix between Metal Gear and GTA. |
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Dec 30 2007, 05:42 AM
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#113
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 640 Joined: 8-October 07 Member No.: 13,611 |
Please don't take this the wrong way but are you high? That is just the worst comparison I've seen that didn't involve Nazis.
What kind of an idiot would pay money to play a game like that where you can die for no reason any second? That's not fun. It's a mitigating circumstance for justifiable homicide. |
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Dec 30 2007, 07:19 AM
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#114
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
I wasn't even alive then and I have some idea who JFK was and what happened. As I have no idea what the hell he's talking about with the Lord British bit it's a pretty weak comparison. Particularly when he tosses in the wackjob black helicopter crap.... :please: |
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Dec 31 2007, 03:35 AM
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#115
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 21-May 06 Member No.: 8,583 |
Ah, those were the days. I feel like an old fart at 32. Nowadays I can't afford a MMORPG, but dumbing them down like they have didn't help. I think that we need to make any Shadowrun MMO be completely separate from a single player game, because each would involve a different approach to playing the game. The only things they would have in common would be the underlying die rolling mechanics (assuming such were being used) and death being final. Personally, I think that the approach to the single player version should be similar to the "Baldur's Gate" series with respect to character generation and NPC teammates, in broad outline if not specific detail (for example, I don't think anyone would like it if prospective teammates included a Russian berserker Adept and his bodyguard charge, a Russian Idol Priestess following the Great Mother Idol.) Mission Structure should be like a mix the "Grand Theft Auto" series (except that death=Reload), and the "Hitman" series, but allow some system (not too intrusive) for salary negotiation. In addition, it should also include other things like runner bars, flophouses and coffin hotels, bordellos, underground casinos and fight pits, Drug and BTL dens, Holovision Grindhouses, black markets, and many other things not specifically tied to the run. |
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Jan 6 2008, 07:38 PM
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#116
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Karma Police Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,358 Joined: 22-July 04 From: Gothenburg, SE Member No.: 6,505 |
That's good satire. Even so, I don't think it sounds too bad, to be honest. It's been a long time since I played Shadowrun or even had the urge to post about it on Dumpshock, but in the meantime I'm actually still playing the MS Shadowrun FPS, even though I bitched about it as much as the next man and never play any other FPS:s. It's a fun game, all things considered. And if someone makes a Shadowrun MMO, all I really want from it is that it's a fun game. Love playing RPG:s, love the Shadowrun setting, don't want to GM anymore! Too timeconsuming and taxing on your creativity. Too bad I decided to be the GM of Shadowrun in my group of friends so long ago. How can I justifiably ask someone else in my gaming group to GM it when I've read virtually everything there is to read about it? |
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Jan 7 2008, 05:38 AM
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#117
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,650 Joined: 21-July 07 Member No.: 12,328 |
Eve has other problems though. Most MMO players cannot stomach the 'lose your ship when ganked' game model despite any amount of rarity when ganked. (UO had the same problem) WoW does something completely different. |
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Jan 7 2008, 02:15 PM
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#118
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 21-May 06 Member No.: 8,583 |
Well, Lofwyr's in Germany. This thing will start in Seattle and won't expand out of it for some time, let alone North America. Lofwyr will be unavailable to kill for the same reason the Dalai and Pachen Lamas, the king of the Zulu nation, and Australian Dreamwalkers will be. (Personally, I would think that the board of Aztech, "Tricky Dick" Villiers, or even Ghostwalker's clock would be in more need of a cleaning than Lofwyr's, but that may be just me.)
[RANT MODE=1] If I'm in some bar in the Ork Underground sharing a few brews with my chummers after a run we all survived from while off in the corner someone is slotting a beetle and up on stage some Goblin Rock band is wailing (or yakking) on about how Lone Star, by its very nature, has no clean hands in any legal matter, I'm partaking in the setting. If I'm browsing through a lore store named "The Practicing Bitch" and Kritter Kibble and Hellhound Chow are on sale for :nuyen: 15.45 and :nuyen: 12.75 a bag (plus tax) respectively, I'm partaking in the setting. If I'm watching remakes of Sin City, Kill Bill, and Shoot 'em Up in a Holopic grindhouse triple feature and I can't but help but realise that Melody Tiger makes a much better Gail than Rosario Dawson, but Crime Time was the absolute worst possible choice for Dwight, and nobody can replace Paul Giamatti, Powers Boothe, or David Carridine, I'm partaking in the setting.[/RANT MODE] |
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Jan 7 2008, 02:33 PM
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#119
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
i'm still saying that if MMORPG is not wanted shadowrun should be realized kinda like fallout/fallout2/fallout tactics maybe with a more up to date graphics engine . .
but system wise those games come pretty close to the shadowrun PNP RPG i'd think O.o |
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Jan 7 2008, 04:10 PM
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#120
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
You're so negative, man. Lord British biting it was major. |
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Jan 8 2008, 06:46 AM
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#121
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 313 Joined: 26-February 02 From: UCAS Member No.: 1,015 |
Remember when the Shadowrun FPS was announced but without any details and everyone was posting elaborate fantasies about how it might be like Deus Ex only better? Your rant contained more texture in one paragraph than most of the Shadowrun sessions I've played (taken individually). Are you sure you aren't confusing "MMORPG" with "Welcome to the Shadows"? For one thing: MMORPGs are about grinding levels, not cinema.
No that's the truth, Mr. I've-Never-Played-An-FPS-But-This-Shadowrun-One-Is-Pretty-Good. Some of us still actually play Shadowrun (the RPG) and would like it to not be overrun by a bunch of power-levelling, roll-playing, munchkin-acting douchebags. SR4 brought in enough of them, thank you very much. Although I suppose when the D&D MMORPG was introduced nobody who played that RPG noticed any difference in the caliber of the new players being attracted. Ha. Ha. |
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Jan 8 2008, 06:59 AM
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#122
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,532 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 769 |
That's because D&D online was a miserable failure.
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Jan 8 2008, 09:05 AM
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#123
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
You can because you gurantee to the new GM that at least one player will have an idea of what is going on in the campaign. I think it greatly enhances the experience if everyone GMs some time. |
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Jan 8 2008, 06:41 PM
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#124
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Besides, you can always play the role of a character who isn't automatically going to do the right thing. |
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