Recruitment: Vengeance of the Heavens, Looking to start a new game Options

[Cthulhudreams]

He mentions in the opening post that he'll select characters from those submitted on the 14th, and is looking for 6-7 players. you'll be the 10th person to have expressed interest, and based on watching other threads with the usual ratio of expressions to actual characters (though I suspect it to be higher for this thread given the GM's track record of success), it is probably a safe bet that you'll be a contender.

Edit: I'm going to have to drop the capability in my own right to be a hacker, but I still have a rating 6 agent so that Haxor the interwebs ability is still there.

[Cthulhudreams]

Shameless double post with a question. Do you run shape metal like this

[Buddha72]

LOL!

I would go with the second example of how I would rule Shape Metal works.

[Karaden]

I suppose that also applies to the highly similar heat metal spell? (not that it affects me much as neither of my prospected characters have a lick of magic in them.)

[Karaden]

I've been working on my character some more, and I was wondering if it would be possable to trade in karma for nuyen at all? I'm asking because I'm having a bit of trouble when I get to the weapons and ammo section of my equipment list. Heavy weapons, ammo for the weapon, and explosives cost alot, and I'm looking at either having to drop good wares or only having a very minimal ammount of ammo (or slaking in something like Fake SINs or some other area).

Oh, and since you expressed concern about this, I'll tell you that not one piece of my ware is even alphaware, much less delta.

[Buddha72]

Nikoli - Of course you're welcome, you were a great addition to my old thread. :D

Karaden - Ok my 1st question is whether or not you bought all the starting nuyen you could at character generation since you have extra karma you could use it to buy the skills given up for starting cash. Assuming you did take max cash at char gen I'm not doing the karma/nuyen exchange house rule yet since I have a loose grasp on the economics of the new system but I am wondering if any other players are running into money problems. I picked 200k but if it's becoming a limiting factor I would like to know so has anyone else had a problem with cash?

I am going to rule Heat Metal the same way or it makes both spells pretty useless to a runner.

[Karaden]

Course I got max staring money :)

It isn't a huge problem, I'm only like 15k over right now, and I can maybe chip away on that by using weaker armor or reducing various ammo or dropping one of my guns, or perhaps downgrading my cyber a bit. I just figured I'd ask about the exchange before I starting erasing stuff and having to recalculate everything.

[Cthulhudreams]

I ran out of cash pretty hard with 200k starting money, and I'm currently looking at about 20k over though that is after cutting 'fat' out of the sheet.

Not saying you should go for that, but if you do 1 karma =2.5k nuyen probably isn't a bad starting point, though that makes buying cash with karma highly efficient.

[Karaden]

[Cthulhudreams]

Cyberware is a bad comparison measure because you are spending essence for which it is hard to draw comparisons, there being no other good you can exchange for more essence. Unfortunately, thinking about it my statement is also wrong :(, but lets have a quick look at my thought processes

A better look is find the karma BP equivalences in other things, then use the BP:Karma ratio to decide what the equivalence for cash should be. Unfortunately this system also exposes whats wrong with the BP/Karma system, but it is an interesting study so lets have a look.

For example buying specialisations is 2 = 2 which would say karma should be worth 5k - the same as a BP, but if you look at buying spells, 3 BP = 5 Karma which indicates that each karma should be worth 3k nuyen. So you should always buy specs with karma. Always! But as we'll see, spells have a highly BP weighted BP:Karma ratio, which drives the value of karma down so you should buy spells with BP.

Positive qualities say the ratio should be 1 BP = 5k Nuyen = 2 Karma (therefore 1 karma =2.5k) The worst ratio of BP to karma in the game, interestingly.

If you think of it as buying attributes up to 6 costs 65 BP and 60 Karma, karma should be worth 5.4k per point

Whereas if you look at skills from 1 -> 6 thats 24:44 or 1 karma worth 2.7k a point.

Which means my statement is wrong and it is more efficient to buy money with BP at the points under discussion. I apologise for my insanity. It is an intresting study of what you should by with karma (Attributes, Specialisations) and what you should buy with BP (Skills, positive qualities, Spells).

So if you wanted to fix a fair and discouraging price for Karma -> Nuyen, you're probably looking near the 3k mark, which makes it more efficient than buying skills, or positive qualities, the same as spells, but less efficient than buying attributes or specialisations.

[Whipstitch]

I'm not sure I've ever -not- hit the starting nuyen cap with mundane characters, to be honest.

[Cthulhudreams]

Yeah, money is exchanged directly for power at the cost of essence which has no value for a mundane.

I'm running out badly for an awakened character, but I'm also attempting to include hacking and rigging both of which are very expensive.

[Buddha72]

Ok based on the feedback thus far I have no problem adding another 100k to the money so the new total would be 300k. Enjoy! :P

[Redjack]

Eurocar here we come!!

[Buddha72]

LOL!

Just a heads up if people have been sending me questions/comments via my gmail account sorry for missing them. I was looking here for comments/questions and was only popping in every few days to check for character submissions. I will be checking the account everyday now until the recruitment is over and the IC thread begins. I have sent replies to the emails that had questions so keep an eye out. Thanks!

[Karaden]

Sweet, 100k, I think I have about 80k of that already earmarked :P

Oh, and as for that little comparison, you really want to compare to a rating of 5 for stats, because of that random 15 point jump for the last point in BP. It is in fact by far most effective to get to 5 via BP (40 points) and the 6th point via Karma (only 18 as opposed to 25)

[Cthulhudreams]

Yeah, the logic does break a bit, but the ratio is still screaming 'stats with karma!!!11!!1' except logic and intuition because those stats give knowledge skills.

[Karaden]

[Cthulhudreams]

Yeah, but karma is worth less than a BP.

[Derail]

[ Spoiler ]

Say you're character wants a skill group at 4 and a stat at 5, its 40 BP and 42 karma to get a stat at 5, 40 BP and 55 karma to get the skill at 4, so it is most efficient to spend karma on skills and BP on stats.

YMMV.

[/derail]

[JDragon]

@Buddha72

Here is the write up I have started on the group I want to use for my adept. I had PM'ed it last week but it seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle so I've posted it as a spoiler here.

This is my first shot at this and I'm open to your input and requests for adjustments.

Thanks

JD

[ Spoiler ]

The Scam

Purpose: The "Scam" is a place for awakened individuals that wish to use their ability's for monetary & personal gain, with out requiring the use of force. It attracts many Social Adepts, as well as other awakened con-artists.

Members: 10-15 per major metropolis

Strictures: Secrecy, Fraternity, Deed (provide a mark), Dues (10% & Support of other members), Exclusive Membership, Oath (to the group)

Resources: Middle; Must pay 10% of any money made directly from a Con or similar type endeavor. Money attained through other means are not counted toward this amount. Must also provide as much support as possible to other members if requested. These funds are used to maintain local lodges (rating 4) as well as funds for other needs of the members, (IE Lawyers, emergency SIN's, etc).

Patron: None

Description & Customs: The "Scam" is a group of awakened individuals that want to use their abilities to make money and gain personal power. They use their extraordinary social and magical skills to convince others to freely give them their money, valuables and other items of importance, sometimes including information with out the use of force. They are much more discrete and cunning than their brethren that resort to simple physical or magical violence. The group does not frown up on the use of violence, as it is a part of everyday life for many, it just does not wish to see it used in connection with the cons and other scams the group and it members undertake.

Upon entry in to the group a new member must do several things. First they must pay an entry fee of 10% of their take on scams for the last 6 months. Second they must provide a mark for a con that another member, the mark must be good for at least 10k nuyen. The final is the Oath to the group to follow all of its Strictures. (This for most members counts as an Ordeal for an Initiation)

While the group has spread world wide, it is actually made of many small groups working independently in their individual cities or metroplexes. The groups will communicate at the highest level from one city to another on occasion, primarily to let them know if a member is going to be visiting their area. Visiting members are provided a contact number of a local member if assistance is needed during their visit and to make sure they are not going to interfere with any on going operations. Due to each groups small size and strict secrecy they have remained below the radar of most law enforcement agencies.

Each group has a small building with some kind of business front to be used by members as needed. These building also include some kind of lodge, the exact rating and type of lodge is based on the individual groups make up and needs.

[Karaden]

Looks like a cool group JDragon.

[JDragon]

[Buddha72]

The group looks fine, no problems with it at all.

The extra cash was across the board so everyone enjoy. :)

[JDragon]

[JDragon]

Ok, got another ?

Can we use Karma to increase Contacts? And if so what does it cost?

I don't see it in the book.

Also, suggestions for contacts all?

Thanks

JD