 And early no less!, Corp. Enclaves hardcopy!! |
  |
 Jan 5 2008, 10:18 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Mystery Archaeologist  Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760  |
Yesterday i popped into my FLGS to ask the guy who runs it to make sure he gets a Corp Enclaves for me. He turned rummagged through a box and handed me a copy. GLEE!
I haven't had a proper read of it yet but what I've scanned is pretty interesting, and the hints in the "Sign on screen" are to me even more so. I suspect today will be mostly reading it more thoroughly. |
 |
 
|
|
Jan 5 2008, 02:03 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
Good to hear it is hitting shelves. I was curious when it would appear in stores. I'm interested in hearing what you think of it when you've read through it.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 5 2008, 03:54 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
Still not fully read through but one thing of wonder leapt out at me.
THE MAPS HAVE SCALED. I wan't to kiss whoever decided to do this, then apologise and buy them lots of drinks. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 6 2008, 02:10 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
Okay most of the way through LA.
Ploghing through the excellent info on Horizon (deeper than i'd expect, just shy of a corp orate download write up). They seem worrying benevolent, which is good, I have to worry about who is running them, Harlequin, Bugs, Hestaby or someone else entirely are the ideas that hit me. I am also happy to see the idea of memes coming up (though not as nasty as I'd hope, maybe as a Matrix based real world attack they'd work, but thats not what they've done.) The Dawkins Group maybe my favorite reference in SR ever. This section makes the book useful for any SR game anywhere in the world. I also like the fact that the discussion of "the Fall", the much mal... ahem discussed sinking which seems to have a level of reference to the reseanable points made by the "hey that's insane!" camp right here on DS. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 6 2008, 10:53 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Yep, ordered my copy yesterday too. :)
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 6 2008, 07:27 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,379 Joined: 16-April 02 From: the LI shadows Member No.: 2,607 |
:eek:
I'm planning to call the Strat on that Wednesday to find out if Enclaves is in. Then the next day I'll make an early trip into NYC, pick them up & meet my GF for lunch. Then a quick train ride back to my home station to head to work. :D |
|
|
|
|
Jan 10 2008, 11:45 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Just fished the book ouf of the mail and skimmed through it. Again, no index... :( And the art in the Los Angeles-chapter is not the best, carefully spoken. But overall, the book made a good first impression, can't wait to read through it :)
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 10 2008, 05:37 PM
Post
#8
|
|||
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...hot damn! That has been one of my real sore points with previous location source material, particularly SoE & SoA. For my RiS campaign ended up buying Euro road maps (& these are not cheap) so that I could give the players correct travel distances and times to get from one place to the another. Heck, even had to go on EBay to get a decent map of Zagreb. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 10 2008, 07:45 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Man Behind the Curtain Group: Admin Posts: 14,871 Joined: 2-July 89 From: End of the Yellow-Brick Road Member No.: 3 |
Got my copy yesterday... Not really had a chance to dive into it yet....
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 10 2008, 07:54 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
How does this compare to Runner Havens? I was a little disappointed with that book, especially the section on Seattle. Could we, at some point, get a Seattle book that DOESN'T assume that we have all of the other Seattle books going back to 1st edition?
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 10 2008, 08:54 PM
Post
#11
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 640 Joined: 8-October 07 Member No.: 13,611 |
No. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 10 2008, 08:56 PM
Post
#12
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
:( |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 11 2008, 01:02 AM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
Just got it today USPS priority from BattleCorps. Mmm, new book smell.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 11 2008, 04:11 AM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,379 Joined: 16-April 02 From: the LI shadows Member No.: 2,607 |
Got mine at the Strat today. :D
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 11 2008, 04:22 AM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 166 Joined: 28-November 06 From: Broomfield, CO Member No.: 10,065 |
I was going to drop by the FLGS on my way to Wednesday's Shadowrun 3rd session but the GM dropped out (he's an infusion specialist and got double booked).
So I had a couple of guys drop by and we played Car Wars instead. I offered 4th edition but only two guys dropped by. I'm looking forward to picking it up and the new Paranoia book tomorrow or Saturday though. Carl |
|
|
|
|
Jan 11 2008, 01:49 PM
Post
#16
|
|||||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
You will note that though there's some history to Horizon and some details on the big names the focus is definitely on the group's local infrastructure. For the global picture and more secrets you'll have to wait for the next corp guidebook...
Contrary to popular opinion we do listen to what the fans are saying - we might not agree but we do listen. In this particular case though, "the Fall" as depicted in Corporate Enclaves was pretty much mapped out this way since SR4 came out, though Jay Levine certainly enhanced and filled out the original concept with his contribution in Street Magic. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 12 2008, 06:47 AM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Ok, so I buy the book and flip it open at random, to page 94.
So what do I immediately notice? Not a single person involved in the damn book knows anything about space and not a single person cares enough to do any trivial research. Geosynchronous orbit is a LONG way up. Like 36,000 km. The earths atmosphere only goes up, using the most generous of measurements, to 10,000 km. Things put in geosynchronous can't fall out of orbit, you need as much power to get something out of geosynchronous as you had to use to put it up there. You can drift slowly over a period of many years, but the "Out of orbit, where they burned" is just another insanity because, again, nobody cares enough to even do a little thought. Solar sails are not the same as solar power panels, any more than a sail and a windmill are the same. Japan is not on the equator. Tokyo is at 40 degrees north. Hence you can't put a sat in Geo OVER Neo-Tokyo. If you did put it at the equator you wouldn't be able to see the north sides of buildings or anything in the shadow formed by this. Ignoring the insanity of trying to focus on something 36,000 miles away, this makes it pretty useless as a surveillance platform. That was 1/2 of one page. This makes me really anxious to look at the rest of the book. . . . But it does have a cool cover, I'll give it that. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 12 2008, 09:55 AM
Post
#18
|
|||||||||||
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Seriously? Let's look at these thought out and space knowledgeable critiques.
Perhaps you should read System Failure for the context and circumstances in which satellites were forced "out of orbit, where they burned" on the way down (or to save you time: during the Crash 2.0 the Second Virus/Jormungand purposefully forced satellites and a few stations to fire directional thrusters to push them out of orbit and down to Earth).
Solar sails (as detailed in previous Shadowrun books and IRL) can be used as energy collection devices as easily as a propulsion system (in fact they're more efficient as the former than the latter) - though a lot of popular sci-fi overlooks the former. Many of the solar powersat projects on the drawing board do in fact refer to their solar panels as sails since they are used to both collect energy and make orbital corrections. The solar sails described in Corp Enclaves are identified as such because they are made from energy-collecting nanotech fabric, stretch for a couple of klicks, and also function as light sails allowing for orbital course corrections without additional energy sources.
I'm pretty sure you're mistaken on this one too, you're probably confusing "geosynchronious" with "geostationary". While equatorial orbit is a circular (read: perfect) geosynchronious (and possibly geostationary) orbit, it is not the only geosynchronious orbit possible (for instance: the Tundra Elliptical Orbit). To borrow a definition "a geosynchronous orbit is an orbit around the Earth with an orbital period matching the Earth's sidereal rotation period. This synchronization means that for an observer at a fixed location on Earth, a satellite in a geosynchronous orbit returns to exactly the same place in the sky at exactly the same time each day" (Wikipedia) and is not restricted to an equatorial orbit ). In practice pretty much any elliptical orbit can be geosynchronious and be placed anywhere over the Earth - say like over Neo-Tokyo. I believe you are confusing "geosynchronious" and "geostationary," since the satellite is to function as a surveillance platform. However, given that even an artificial geostationary orbit can be accomplished off the equator through constant corrections, the only thing really stopping us from doing so these days is the power requirements. Given that this satellite's solar sails allow for the constant corrections necessary to maintain its otherwise eccentric orbit over Neo-Tokyo it is both geosynchronious and geostationary. As for the satellites value as a surveillance platform, there is no reason why it would be limited to optical observation instead of using a combination array of multiple sensors that make the distances involved far less of a barrier.
Maybe, in hindsight, you should be less anxious? |
||||||||||
|
|
|
||||||||||
|
Jan 12 2008, 04:19 PM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 |
I didn't write that section, but Peter's right about being careful not to confuse "geosynchronous" with "geostationary." All geostationary orbits are geosynchronous, but not all geosynchronous orbits are geostationary.
kzt is correct about a geostationary orbit. But it's likely that Amenhoakari is on a geosynchronous orbit with a non-zero inclination. Which means it isn't always over Neo-Tokyo, but does ensure a window of a time where it is. From a fixed point on the ground, the satellite would appear to move north and south because of the non-zero inclination. They could even give it an eccentric orbit that would keep it circling over the northern hemisphere more than the southern hemisphere, keeping Japan within its sights more often. Also, it's true that the high-resolution photography on the satellite has a limited use, in that you can't see a target from every possible angle (though a non-zero inclination and eccentricity allow for different angles). But that's just one sensor option on Amenhoakari. And all in all, it's a rather minor point to get uppity about. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 12 2008, 04:40 PM
Post
#20
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
I was the one who wrote Amenhoakari up; and the guys have hit most of the major points. Believe it or not I did crack open a couple books to make sure I wasn't pulling things completely out of my ass. I made damn sure not to use geostationary precisely because Neo-Tokyo isn't an equatorial city.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 12 2008, 05:56 PM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
I'm halfway through the LA-chapter and like what I read so far - even though I'd love to hear Frank's opinion about the explanation for the sinking of LA given in CE. :D
But I don't like what I see - most of the illustrations are sub-par and much worse then the standard I have for a RPG sourcebook. Where are the works of Klaus Scherwinski, Marko Djurdjevic and all the other great artsts? |
|
|
|
|
Jan 12 2008, 06:43 PM
Post
#22
|
|||
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
instead of only the RL Names of the Authors your Aliases should come in too. That would probably seriously calm down those things because most people on dumpshock know you guys and thus know that if your name is used then it's probably correct . . and if not, they know who to ask if they are not certain and can get an actual intent from you guys . . |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 12 2008, 06:47 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
So a fleet of many tens of thousands of ton SPS are supposed to reenter because of the station keeping engines? That's like using a rowboat to tow an aircraft carrier from NY to London and would take about as much time. You'd think someone would have noticed that all the station keeping motors were performing an uncommanded burn after the first few weeks, before you get a over few m/sec delta V. You have to accelerate the huge tens of thousands of ton object by several km/sec to get it to reenter. With the station keeping engines. In a few hours. Right....
If it's not "above neo-Tokyo" why does it say it is? A sat that orbits using a Molniya or Tundra orbit actually is more above the Yakutia Republic than Tokyo, which again means that you have a significant inclination and now you can't see the south side of buildings except for a little while each day when it's moving pretty fast along it's ground track. Not to mention that you have hours a day (the same hours, every day) when it will be over Australia or the open ocean. To me it's another "And LA sinks under the waves!!!" stupid throwaway line that makes anyone who has a vague clue stop reading the book and go "what the hell, this is stupid!" Why bother writing crap that yanks people right out of the book? |
|
|
|
|
Jan 12 2008, 06:51 PM
Post
#24
|
|||
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
wait what? where? when? why? how? i seem to have totally missed that . . |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 12 2008, 07:19 PM
Post
#25
|
|||||||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Okay, let's revisit a basic concept here: the same people don't write everything. I, for example, didn't write the bit in SR1 where Japan fields a fleet of solar sats to meet its power needs, nor the bit in System Failure where the terrorist group Winternight organized hundreds of sats to fall out of their orbits as best they can. Obviously they weren't completely successful, for many reasons-including the ones you pointed out. See, SR freelancers have to adapt what they write to the background as best as they can, and we offer up explanations when necessary and prudent-and, most important of all, when we have wordcount. I'm sorry if we didn't go into full detail on everything for you, but there are limitations involved.
Popular conception more than anything. Most people don't really grasp the physics and logistics of satellites, they just wonder why their GPS/phone isn't working right now.
'cause for most people, it does not. Sad to say you're in the minority friend, but the number of people complaining about geosynchronous sats is about on par with, say, people complaining about the square-cube law with respect to critter sizes, and far less than people complaining about the nomenclature of a new Awakened virus as regards to current naming standards for viruses. Everybody has their specialty, or eccentric hobby, or field of truly arcane knowledge where they think they know best (and, in some cases, may well indeed know best). I know it can be frustrating at times, but it's like getting an unexpected result in the lab: if you accept that it happened, the question to ask is why. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 27th April 2024 - 12:05 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.