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> And early no less!, Corp. Enclaves hardcopy!!
Synner
post Jan 12 2008, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History)
and far less than people complaining about the nomenclature of a new Awakened virus as regards to current naming standards for viruses.

If people only knew how brilliant that line is. :rotfl: My hat is off to you, sir.
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Synner
post Jan 12 2008, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (kzt @ Jan 12 2008, 06:47 PM)
So a fleet of many tens of thousands of ton SPS are supposed to reenter because of the station keeping engines?  That's like using a rowboat to tow an aircraft carrier from NY to London and would take about as much time.  You'd think someone would have noticed that all the station keeping motors were performing an uncommanded burn after the first few weeks, before you get a over few m/sec delta V.  You have to accelerate the huge tens of thousands of ton object by several km/sec to get it to reenter.  With the station keeping engines.  In a few hours.  Right....

Again, your gripe is with System Failure not specific to Corporate Enclaves.

For the record, firstly in SF it was mainly small and low-orbiting satelites that made forced reentry during the day of the Crash. Whatever big stuff came down did so later - and even then it was because the crew and computers systems were dead (as depicted in one fiction segment). Second, you are mistakenly assuming orbital engines powered by contemporary systems when there fusion reactors and solar sails have been available for years - they're not that too far advanced but they are a lot better than today. Third and finally, you're disregarding artistic license, for all the grief I've had for the stuff in my section of System Failure the "rain of stars" hasn't been one of them.

QUOTE
If it's not "above neo-Tokyo" why does it say it is?   A sat that orbits using a Molniya or Tundra orbit actually is more above the Yakutia Republic than Tokyo, which again means that you have a significant inclination and now you can't see the south side of buildings except for a little while each day when it's moving pretty fast along it's ground track.  Not to mention that you have hours a day (the same hours, every day) when it will be over Australia or the open ocean.

Read the entry in context, as Ancient has explained its intended for the uninitiated and posted by a non-specialist.

Furthermore, as all the authors (and the editor) have explained it was put in layman's terms since its actual position is pretty irrelevant as long as it's looking down on Tokyo with a wide array of sensors. Opticals might not look through buildings but various types of radar, thermal imaging, radio scanning, etc and a number of other systems do.
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Eugene
post Jan 12 2008, 10:03 PM
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QUOTE (Grinder)
But I don't like what I see - most of the illustrations are sub-par and much worse then the standard I have for a RPG sourcebook. Where are the works of Klaus Scherwinski, Marko Djurdjevic and all the other great artsts?

I myself like the art throughout the book (except for the cover, which makes me in the minority, I guess). The gangbangers just inside the front cover are great, and the saxophonist and the family-in-a-shack in the LA section are quite evocative, IMHO. The only real pieces that don't do much for me are the building landscapes in the "Company Towns" chapter and one artist's insistence for transposing English words and phrases into Greek characters (p.129). The art's better than many pieces in the Core and in Augmentation. de gustantibus non disputandum est, I suppose!
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Eugene
post Jan 12 2008, 10:09 PM
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I'm most of the way through the LA chapter, and it's great fun. Better than Hong Kong, maybe, though I need to think about it some more. Once you get over the sillyness of LA sinking/flooding, the chapter's got lots of great ideas about what that -means- in terms of runs. The idea of your runs being more public in a lot of ways will certainly make for a very different sort of game if that's your homebase. Plus there's a lot of mileage you can get out of the Horizon/Aztechnology rivalry.
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Stahlseele
post Jan 12 2008, 10:15 PM
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QUOTE
Once you get over the sillyness of LA sinking/flooding

strike two for the HUH?-Squad . .
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martindv
post Jan 12 2008, 11:46 PM
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QUOTE (Grinder @ Jan 12 2008, 12:56 PM)
Where are the works of Klaus Scherwinski, Marko Djurdjevic and all the other great artsts?

Marko (and his wife) does cover art and more recently interiors for Marvel Comics.

His first(?) variant cover for Thunderbolts is actually similar in design to Steve Prescott's one-page image in Dragons of the Sixth World of the Draco Foundation board of directors.
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martindv
post Jan 12 2008, 11:51 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele)
QUOTE
Once you get over the sillyness of LA sinking/flooding

strike two for the HUH?-Squad . .

I blame The M.A.N. from S.H.A.D.O.W. and his secret underground military experiments on lizard people and giant scorpions.
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Fortune
post Jan 13 2008, 12:12 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele)
strike two for the HUH?-Squad . .

You might not have read System Failure, where it is described in (a little) more detail, but there is some data on this very subject right in the core SR4 rule book, so it isn't some kind of super big secret.

QUOTE (SR4 pg. 34)
CalFree finally saw the last of Saito, but not the last of its woes. In early 2069, a pair of major earthquakes coming from the San Andreas Fault line and the San Pedro Shelf caused widespread flooding and destruction, killing tens of thousands. Much of Southern California and the Central Valley found themselves dropped below sea level and were inundated with tidal waves. While San Francisco and the Bay Area were mostly spared, waters have flooded most of the Central Valley and Los Angeles (which, if nothing else, had at least fortified their sea walls in the more affluent corporate areas decades ago). They say that the floodwaters may recede after a year or two, but we’ll see. Meanwhile if you want to visit, you’ll either have to fly or learn to swim.


There are also over a dozen threads right here on Dumpshock discussing the matter in various stages of outrage.
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Stahlseele
post Jan 13 2008, 12:17 AM
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*shrugs*
I may not like SR4, but i love fluff-stuff so i actually read both of those books.
but that kinda totally evaded my attention somehow O.o
so they made it a second Hamburg then? *g*
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BookWyrm
post Jan 13 2008, 12:19 AM
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OK, one slightly stupid question. The shaded areas on the map on p.12 of Corp. Enclaves, those areas are flooded?
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Fortune
post Jan 13 2008, 12:20 AM
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System Failure is technically an SR3 release. ;)
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Stahlseele
post Jan 13 2008, 12:21 AM
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oh boy do I know that it is . . i just can't seem to convince anybody else to think like that around my parts of Players somehow <.< . .
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Fortune
post Jan 13 2008, 12:27 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele)
I may not like SR4, but i love fluff-stuff ...

The 'fluff stuff' is what separates Shadowrun (regardless of edition) from all the rest.
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Stahlseele
post Jan 13 2008, 12:38 AM
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i know ^^
i'm a regular for example at Uncle Ancients pages and i am more or less the one all of the others come to when they have questions regarding some part of the world that has nothing to do with the actual rules *g*
But still, i found the fluff for the 2nd crash and the 2nd crash in itself at best sub-optimal <.< . .
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Tiger Eyes
post Jan 13 2008, 01:09 AM
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QUOTE (BookWyrm)
OK, one slightly stupid question. The shaded areas on the map on p.12 of Corp. Enclaves, those areas are flooded?

The shaded areas on pg 12's map are urban areas, which show the sprawl of the cities. You'll notice the shading around Las Vegas and Phoenix, too, which are not flooded.
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martindv
post Jan 13 2008, 06:55 AM
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There is no urban area in Los Angeles. Just sprawl and more sprawl, with a couple of denser cores around Bunker Hill and Century City.
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BookWyrm
post Jan 13 2008, 03:35 PM
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Thanks, Tiger Eyes & martindv.
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martindv
post Jan 13 2008, 06:25 PM
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Well, don't thank me just yet. I don't have Corp Enclaves yet, so as far as I know one or both of those no longer exists.
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Synner
post Jan 13 2008, 06:37 PM
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The grey areas in all the zoomed out maps in Corp Enclaves depict the spread of the recognized limits of the urban sprawl. The flooded areas of LA (mainly LA Central and along the coastline) are shown on the map on p.22.
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