Matrix Mechanic: Attribute + Skill +Program, Plus: What colour is your node? Options

[Ryu]

A matrix mechanic has two opposite goals to consider:
- low ratings have to provide some utility, else everyone is buying the best stuff

- PCs still need to have a solid shot at high-end systems, and least at the top end of the power scale


The basic idea is using the standard mechanic of attribute+skill. I would like to determine the result of any action with one roll, so I went with node ratings as thresholds in the next step. An analysis of possible dice pools reveals the problem with that approach:

- a somewhat gifted person (Logic 4, Hacking 3) has 7 dice, 9 in hot VR. Some chances against rating 3, thats about it

- dedicated PCs might have (Logic 7, Hacking 6), possibly with encephalon (+2), and therefore some 15 dice, 17 in VR. The high end extends a bit farther, but this is already pretty dedicated.

As any hacking attempt needs several rolls, you need something more than (usual threshold*3) dice to reliably beat a system.


I´m currently pondering the solution of adding the program rating in question to the number of dice a character has, limited by basic! skill rating. Assuming any hacker will have the best program ratings he can use, you basically double the number of dice from skill. The hackers above get dice pools of 10 respectivly 19 (without hot VR). This should fit nicely with thresholds of 3-6, given mostly by Firewall, System and Encryption.

Any opinions on how this will be balanced? Should I (additionally) limit hits by program rating?
Regardless of your interest in changeing RAW rules, would you like to play in such an environment? I´m assuming logic 6 or 7 and hacking 4 for most starting hackers, resulting in some 15 dice.



Next, we used to have system codes like Blue/Green/Yellow/Red, indicating the general hardness of the system. The Kid reminded me of those, and I want to incorporate them. How about the following:
- each System has a colour code in addition to its rating.
- the colour code results in a price multiplier for the System.
- the colour code modifies the dicepool of a would-be attacker.

Possible way to do it:
Colour/Price/DicePools
Blue 0.5 +2
Green 1 +0
Yellow 2 -2
Red 3 -4

Again, what do you think? This is an easy point to change hacker dicepools (much).

[Cthulhudreams]

Unless you charge the thresholds this just makes everyone's dice pools way huger so they score bigger hits.

Can I suggest changing the dice pool penalties of the systems to between -3 to -9 to fix this issue? That keeps the pool size(s) the same so you don;t have to change the tresholds.

That said it still doesn't work for the outside of a system programs like sniffer.

[Ryu]

That is the basic idea, I up the number of hits people will have so they can tackle higher thresholds on not-extended tests. A rating 3 node is and should be (IMO) easy prey for a dedicated, augmented hacker, while script kiddies need no longer apply. Does the number of dice disturb you?

There still is the issue of IC, which I would like to do connection-limited like Frank did, and the effect of a system going on alert.

[Cthulhudreams]

I was just thinking that there are lots of applications where you are not tackling a node. Say, sniffer.

To perform an Intercept Wireless Signal action, make an
Electronic Warfare + Sniffer (3) Test.

I now get my logic added to that? I'm going to succeed every time, as opposed to 'usually'

Thats what through me. Lots of that style of actions.

[Ryu]

Ah ok, I see now! All fixed thresholds need an increase, thats for sure.

How about an across the board +1, as someone with rating 3 skill gets up to +3 dice from program?

[Aaron]

One thing about using three ratings to build a pool is that it's far easier to make everything into Success Tests rather than Opposed Tests. For example, a Matrix attack could be a Logic + Cybercombat + Attack (target's Firewall) Test, and still be a fair simulation.

[Karaden]

I think your underestimating the DP that people can bring to bear on a hacking test.

I think that logic 7 + skill 8 (using specilty) + MathSPU 2 + program 6 + Vr 2 + some other bonus of 2 is not beyond a dedicated starting hacker. That gives a rather large pool of 27. Now, average that out and you can expect this person to break into a threshhold 7 Red server a decent amount of the time. Maybe that is the level you want the person at, but I just want to point out that I think you are underestimating the skill that most dedicated hackers are going to have.

[Buster]

[Karaden]

I don't know about that. I can get a character well over 30 dice using this system.

[Buster]

[Karaden]

[Sponge]

[Karaden]

[Cthulhudreams]

The benefit of the logic + skill limited by program rule is that it doesn't chance the dicepool sizes much, and if you go nuts you're still capped to 6 hits - so your not getting much benift past 20 dice. If you read the end of franktrollman's thread on alt matrix rules he goes over something much like this and indicates the problem.

But, I do like the option, its a bit less GiTS thank franks system, so it would be nice to see it grow wings and fly.

[Ryu]

Thanks all!

And that bit on max. DP sizes is very important Karaden! I do not own a copy of augmentation personally yet (decided to buy the german edition once it comes out), so many of those options are unfamiliar. Thanks for checking all those pages!

I´m now sure that Cthulhudreams is right and the cap has to stay.

Generally, I consider a char with maxxed hacking skill, hacking-centered augmentation and appropiate specialisation so far "out there" that breaking into Red-7s is indeed par for the course. For all others, buying two groups at 3 or 4, plus some supporting ware, is already a large chunk of BP to put into one area. Maybe DP boni from ware should be limited to skill, too? Or one could limit max. DP size to four times basic skill?

It is very easy do up the Colour Code Mods to 0/-2/-4-/-6, or even higher. I´ll leave fine-tuning that for the beta-stages, after IC and alert stages are developed.

[The Red Menace]

I have to say, I do dig your color code idea. Very creative.

[Karaden]

[Jaid]

i have found that the matrix change i like most is actually moon-hawk's.

attribute + skill, you are assumed to have all programs available to you at a rating equal to your commlink's response (in the event that rating even matters), and commlinks have their cost multiplied by the response rating. you get a penalty to your dice roll for not having a given program running should you try to take action without loading it (the penalty is a standard one for not having appropriate tools iirc).

doesn't change dice pool sizes at all, doesn't require changing any other thresholds in the game really. requires some minor changes to technomancers (iirc they pay 3 BPs per complex form, and can thread to reduce the penalty for not having the CF or to simply give a bonus to using the CF). i think that was pretty much it.

[Karaden]

I remember that one. I argued debated in that one quite a bit. I think it was actually a fairly decent system. I initally didn't like taking out the programs, but I suppose it ends up working out quite well. Don't remember if/how custom commlinks where delt with.

[Ryu]

Yeah, I like his system, too. I had previously opened a thread about another part of my alternative matrix system, and have considered some of his ideas.

Without my dislike of some other elements of the matrix rules I´d even have adopted his system and be done with. IE, should I not be able to find an adequate idea for SOTA rules, ratings=response is so in my rules...

What I want to do:
- introduce SOTA rules so anyone not able to maintain high-end ratings will pay through the nose = advantage to the hacker
- remove all extended tests for tasks were you are supposed to fail occasionally
- improve encryption (success test is a given) by considering the kind of password used and the amount of data encrypted (money transfer = little data over time= super-effective), and with that remove the constant SIN integrity checks the whole world has going on
- rework what IC can do (based on Franks idea of "multiples don´t help")


And yeah, the colour code idea is quite old and definitly not mine. I gave credit even for the reminder, The Kid meaning Kyoto Kid ;)

[Moon-Hawk]

[Ryu]

I advanced my conept today, much.

I have changed to an attribute+skill+knowledge skill, with program ratings limiting net hits.

The knowledge skills are named XXX Familiarity, with XXX being either a program or a group of programs. For some things general knowledge skills are used instead.

Thus, I have being a hacker more exclusive because you have to learn more skills. On the other hand programs become basically free, reducing the required BP for resources.


On Encryption, I have given threshold modifiers for more difficult kinds of password. Credsticks are back and extremly secure, because they are passkeys with automatic encryption for the money transfer (Threshold 9 to break into, while needing decryption 6 running. Nothing to speak of the defenses inside that Bank server - credstick PAN. While it can be done, it is sufficiently out there to allow for belief in a matrix payment system.

[Moon-Hawk]

[Cthulhudreams]

You still need to do something about agents and pilot programs as well, even if you hit agents with the nerf bat the fact you can make a perfectly effective rigger that has no technical skills himself aside from 'fix' the spell is insane. Don't let that fly.

I'd do what he's done to agents - lock them up in a system, though that requires you defining how systems interact better, and ban all applications of pilot that entail a program that isn;t for moving or shooting guns.

Edit: I disagree with your change to skill pools on the basis that it locks hackers into spending their knowledge skills on being a better hacker as opposed to something to round out the concept.

[Ryu]