Game level, Why must it be street? Options

[toturi]

[TheOneRonin]

[Kyoto Kid]

[ElFenrir]

See, how I would work the aformentioned screaming guy trying to Infiltrate, is to use the threshold 1 Perception roll. If the guards fail, Ie, get NO hits, or glitch, or even critical glitch, what i would say happens is the guard just thinks the screaming is coming from some fool outside, someone trying to play a joke, or something along those lines, and he simply doesn't care. If PCs can critically glitch, so can NPCs. If PCs can simply fail, so can NPCs.

I would say being orange and screaming is generally idiotic to try, and highly suggest they DONT go that route, but if they wanted to, i'd let the dice fall. Who knows, maybe they'd fail. But with only one hit needed to see, probably not(though the average guard only tosses about 4-6 perception dice.

Now, if someone wanted to be the Screaming Orange Guy to DISTRACT the real Infiltrator....then that's a bit more clever. While the guards are trying to deal with the screamer, i'd assign a HIGHER threshold to their Perception tests to see the proper, quiet Infiltrator, since they already have their hands full. Of course, i might hope that the PC attempting the distraction has some decent protection, since fire will be focused on them.

I usually don't like saying no, unless it's obviously, blatantly, impossible(leaping from the Empire State Building to the Sears Tower, defeating a space shuttle with a holdout and gel rounds, etc.) If something has at least a tiny, remote, snowball's chance in hell of MAAAYBE making it with an amazing stroke of luck, ill give it a try, letting them know that it's going to be damned hard and might be disasterous if they fail.

[FrankTrollman]

[Apathy]

Everybody has a different interpretation of the rules. In my mind wearing a Mitsuhama uniform when everybody else in the crowd is wearing a Yametetsu uniform meets the intent of the "stands out in some way" clause. That would be worth +2DP to some guard watching the door when Mr McSneaky walks through. Common sense would dictate that screaming and being naked and being painted dayglo orange would a more significant penalty than that.

[Moon-Hawk]

A lot of people are stuck on whether or not it is the intent of a character to sneak if they've painted themselves orange and are screaming.
Would it help if we revised the example?
How about this:
The character in question is still Sneaky McNinja, the ultimate sneakster you've never heard of. He's been captured and thrown in prison, where they've stripped him naked, painted him day-glo orange, and put a screamer on his ankle that makes an annoying noise if he leaves his cell. He manages to leave his cell, and has to sneak out of the facility.
Still day-glo orange and screaming, but now none of it is voluntary, and the character really is trying everything possible to sneak.
Does that change anything? Is there any way to salvage this discussion?

edited for typos

[Fortune]

Still a Perception test for the guard with a Threshold of 1 and a Dice Pool modifier of +2 (+ possibly others ... I'm not looking it up right now).

[Cain]

[Fortune]

[Blade]

You can't compare Wushu's system to Shadowrun's. Wushu is simplistic, Shadowrun is simulationist.

This leads to Shadowrun rules being more detailed which in turns makes it more difficult for it to cover every possible situation. That's why, I repeat, Shadowrun rules explicitely state that the GM can add modifiers that aren't listed in the BBB if he thinks they are needed.
So he can decide that being painted with glowing orange paint leads to a +4 modifier to detect. It's not houseruling, it's the rules.

Personally, I use Dying Earth RPG's Overarching Rule of Efficacious Blandishment:

[DireRadiant]

Is the screaming orange guy trying to get into a Denver Broncos game?

I need rule for that in the book. Don't I?

[Kyoto Kid]

...now if he's going to a Syracuse game he actually gets +2 dice. :grinbig:

[Ryu]

You don´t know the rules? The rules say you do not need to roll Perception to notice something obvious. So you see the sneaking, screaming neon-orange metahuman being. Without test.

[Cain]

[Jhaiisiin]

Okay, wait a tick here. You bypass *all* the armor of a citymaster? How the crap do you pull that off? You can't bypass armor if there's no way to bypass it. He's in full enclosure, and no matter what, you have to fire THROUGH armored glass to hit the guy. It's not like there's a single, unarmored peephole on something like that. In reality, the armored glass will have a lower armor rating than, say, the side of the citymaster that has the 2inch armored plating, but as SR doesn't do hit locations, you can assume that the glass has the same armor as the rest of the vehicle. Even if you did lower the armor of the glass, you'd be unable to bypass it as it counts as a barrier for the target. The fact that you gave the target full cover (see below for how I modify this) further supports that you can't just ignore the barrier.

Now I'll be optimistic and say the glass only has an effective armor of 8 (per the Barrier ratings table on pg 157 SR4).
So here's what your breakdown should look like:
-2 from recoil
-3 Extreme Range
-3 wound modifier
-3 for moving vehicle
-4 for good cover (only his torso/head visible. He's not blind firing because you can see through the friggin' window)
-1 Firing from cover
-2 for Rain
-12 for difference of armor (20 armor - 8 armor of armored glass that you can't bypass because the target is completely behind it)
Total = -30 DP Modifier.

In the end, he still shoots with just edge, but the driver soaks with his body of 3 + 10 armor from the citymaster's window (8 armor + 2 from flechette bonus) That's an average of 4 hits, and potentially more. It's survivable, and thus you can't one shot the driver unless the longshot test rolls really well and the driver soaks really badly.

And that's all assuming you even allow flechette ammo to penetrate vehicular armor. I'm sorry, but a shotgun-style weapon isn't going to do anything but tink off the armor at extreme range when using flechette ammo.

[Cain]

[Stahlseele]

i think what confuses him is the fact that you bypass the armor OF THE CAR which is ON THE CAR and not ON THE DRIVER per say . . but that would be circumvented by expressly aiming for the Driver, which, in itself, is a dodgy reason at best i'd say . .

[Riley37]

[JonathanC]

Wouldn't being inside of a Citymaster count as being behind a barrier, rather than being behind armor? Last time I checked, a called shot can't bypass a barrier. You have to shoot through it (good luck with that).

[DTFarstar]

I really wish they had just phrased the called shot rules slightly differently so that it said something like "You may call a shot on a specific region of the target to bypass armor not covering that portion of the body." Which would allow the bypass all armor alot of the time. There is very rarely armor that doesn't have a weak point of coverage somewhere. However, if someone is completely covered, especially by a freaking barrier, it wouldn't bypass THAT. Though the way I work call shot isn't IGNORING armor, it is a modification. So, ok called shot to bypass armor -12, well they have an armor of 0 now, +whatever the barrier is. Oh, even if you are just wearing normal clothes I give flechette ammo the +AP. I would probably give it to you naked. I treat everyone as having base armor 0, not no armor. Makes sense to me.

Chris

[Caine Hazen]

[Jhaiisiin]

But you can't bypass all the armor in the case of the citymaster. The armor of the glass is in the way at all times, you can't "bypass" it, because there's no holes to shoot through, no appendages visible, basically no vulnerable spots.

[hyzmarca]

[Jhaiisiin]

That's a good point. If a driver sees a gun pointing at him, he's likely to swerve to help the shot miss. The only way they wouldn't is if they're confident the armor would protect them, which in this case it pretty much would.