My Assistant
Site Message
(Message will auto close in 2 seconds)
  |
 Immunity to Normal Weapons, Eratta? |
 Jan 17 2008, 11:00 AM
Post
#26
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 28-January 05 Member No.: 7,029  |
WF are brilliant! ;) Adding thier Force as dice to your attack, which should result in extra damage.
The Astral stuff and being able to wack creatures on the Astral Plane with one when perceiving is just gravy. It's all about the extra dice to hit! ;) |
 |
 
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 11:17 AM
Post
#27
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 2-August 06 Member No.: 9,006 |
Well, you see...one CAN tend to go with the literal approach. Simple fact is: I can go on a plane and keep my hands(for now), so they are not weapons. Also, considering that your hands are living, while a weapon is not...I think if could actually be cool to face something that you shoot multiple times, and it shrugs off, but Bob the Troll gives it a massive uppercut, and you hear bones crack... Admittedly, there is also the simple fact that the things that have Immunity to Normal Weapons are not things you would be engaging in hand-to-hand unless you were a Physical Adept in mst cases...because, well them against mundane fists=Runner becomes kibble...but, I could still see that. And, of course, if you don't have something libe bone density or bone-lacing, it will take a lout of pounding to take something down, anyway... |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 17 2008, 11:23 AM
Post
#28
|
|||
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,526 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
allways been like that, will allways be like that . . and it is good that way ^^ |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 17 2008, 12:26 PM
Post
#29
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 2-August 06 Member No.: 9,006 |
Exactly. Which is why I do not consider fists or feet to be "weapons", especially since naturally, they only deal stun damage. My GM might disagree..we will see waht she says after re-reading the rules on Immunity to Normal Weapons, but...I still think it is a cool image.. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jan 17 2008, 12:32 PM
Post
#30
|
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,526 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
it IS a cool image . . but only adepts with killing hands get to do that to ghosts, everybody else does attack of will or however that is called.
that uses i think willpower for strength or something like that. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 01:43 PM
Post
#31
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Until you use them (or even threatened to use them) in an act of assault or violence of some kind. The same argument could be made for a bottle, or a table leg, or even another metahuman body. The fact remains that if something is used as a weapon in Shadowrun, then it is considered a weapon according to the rules. Fists (and even fists with bone lacing) have a listed damage base in the rules, and the is no mention of bone lacing (or any other normal implant) being inherently magical in nature. If that weapon is non-magical in nature, then ItNW applies. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 17 2008, 02:15 PM
Post
#32
|
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,526 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
in fact, if you are a Boxer or Karate-Ka or Judo-Ka or any such thing, your Hands and feet at least, if not your whole body, are actually considered a lethal weapon . . if you happen to get involved in a brawl you're in deep shit if there's no proof of you acting in pure self defense . . i know a barkeeper, he's been a price boxer once and is big and strong and still training . . he does not defend himself because once when he did that he got into more trouble than the guy who attacked him exactly for that reason . .
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 03:59 PM
Post
#33
|
|||||||
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
....yikes, Short Stuff (#100, yay, the century mark) just became a whole lot nastier, even when using her Killing Hands.
...I know, the law is pretty twisted in that way. Where I live, If I shoot and possibly kill someone who is breaking into my place & threatening me, It's considered self defence. If I say whack him in the hand or leg with my Louisville Slugger or my fighting staff (with which I am trained) I'm up for assault and he's the victim even though I was not necessarily using lethal force. In my book, he gave up his rights to have me prosecuted by the nature of his act. However, let's not get into a lengthy derail about this here. [/derail] |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Jan 17 2008, 04:02 PM
Post
#34
|
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,526 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
yes, let's end this with the words:"your hands are not magical weapons, your hands are usual weapons . . at least if you are not an adept with killing hands or something similar . . and you know why? 'cause the books say so!" *g*
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 04:06 PM
Post
#35
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 23-April 07 From: Aurora, CO Member No.: 11,514 |
We use the 5+5 Force 5 spirit has 5 auto hits meaning ANY attack doing 5 or less does no damage. Since the spirit gets 5 more dice to doll it can possibly shrug off a couple more, (statistically almost 2 more,) meaning there is a neat level of unknown potential for a situation. @Frank: I concur that these rules do make AP weapons VERY usefull. They are now in high demand in my game like they should be, (and are justified in their extreme cost.) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 17 2008, 04:19 PM
Post
#36
|
|
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...makes that PJSS with EXEX (or APDS, if you can get it) a lot more worth the cost.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 04:43 PM
Post
#37
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Thanks. That's probably the direction I would be leaning, should I use these rules. :) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 17 2008, 06:29 PM
Post
#38
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,269 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,421 |
My players will be fighting spirits this Saturday, I think I'm going to try this new rule. Not that it's needed, really. Freaking crazy troll adept.
Chris |
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 06:36 PM
Post
#39
|
|||
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,526 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
it's what they are there for, quit complaining *g* hrm . . would power-throw bei considered as being magical enough to work against spirits and the such? probably not huh? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 17 2008, 06:43 PM
Post
#40
|
|
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I would think if an adept also had Missile Mastery it would.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 06:45 PM
Post
#41
|
|||
|
Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Whoa, wait.....what? Would it? This would be HUGE in my gaming group. Does Missile Mastery make a thrown object non-normal, with respect to ItNW? Does power throw? Granted most thrower builds have both, but does it? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 17 2008, 06:53 PM
Post
#42
|
|
|
Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 8,705 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
I don't see anything that says Missile Mastery or Power Throw do anything by themselves or in concert to overcome ItNW.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 07:16 PM
Post
#43
|
|
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,526 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
wasn't missle mastery the ability to snatch thrown things out of thin air? or was that missle parry? @.@
but yeah, think about it, this one power imbued the projectile with some energy from the adept to raise the damage von light to moderate in SR3 for example . . i think that would be a valid question O.o |
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 07:27 PM
Post
#44
|
|
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...don't have my sourcebook PDFs with me at the moment, but I thought there was something about items thrown by someone with Missile Mastery affecting targets with immunity to normal weapons. I could be in error.
As for Power throw, that just increases the DV of the attack the same as Critical Strike does for unarmed melee. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 07:29 PM
Post
#45
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 10-November 07 Member No.: 14,124 |
There's a perfectly fluff reason why hands are normal weapons. It's the mojo or will behind the attack that makes not normal. So your hands aren't actually doing the damage to a spirit. Yes you take your hands with you to astral, but you replace your strength with charisma. If you are not projecting then you make the force of will attack, but not strength.
I would not allow missile mastery to get past immunity. A) most magic is severed once an item leaves the person. (see enchanting firearms) B) I would see missile mastery more as a velocity, angle, trajectory than an enhanced missile. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 07:45 PM
Post
#46
|
|
|
Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Power Throw + Missile Mastery + High Strength will generally penetrade ITNW just based on the gross level of damage a thrown weapon will inflict.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 17 2008, 09:56 PM
Post
#47
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 8-November 07 Member No.: 14,097 |
Personally I think the Hardened Armor rule works very well for, well, armored targets such as military vehicles and the like. Take for example a tank: small arms and small-caliber cannon fire and the like simply do nothing - they bounce off, explode harmlessly on the armor, etc. If a shot is big enough and powerful enough to penetrate the armor, it's probably going to "kill" the tank, as whatever solid bits get through the armor are going to destroy whatever is behind it, whether that's the engine, ammunition, crew, or whatever. Whether Spirits, supernatural critters, cyberzombies, and the like should really be using Hardened Armor or not is, to me, a different question (and I don't have an opinion on it as I'm not familiar with how those things work out in actual play). DS |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 17 2008, 10:20 PM
Post
#48
|
|||
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,526 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
i pretty much only agree with you on point B, up untill then i would ask why the thrown weapon does more damage if any magical effects just simply stop when the thrown object is leaving the hand of throwing adept . . |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 17 2008, 10:25 PM
Post
#49
|
|||
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Because the Adept's magic affects his aim and ability with the weapon. It does not make the throwing weapon magic in and of itself. Ranged magical weapons do not work in Shadowrun. It is one of the core foundations of the magic system. You could have a Weapon Focus dagger, which works just fine in your hand. The moment you throw it though, it loses any bonuses for being a Weapon Focus, reverting back to what is effectively a non-magical weapon until such time as it comes back into contact with the person to which it is Bonded (or is re-Bonded, whichever comes first). |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 17 2008, 10:28 PM
Post
#50
|
|||||
|
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,526 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
i know that bit about there not being any magical weapons in SR of course . . i'd just think that to improve his aim and ability with said weapons would come from improved attribute(whatever is used with throwing) and improved skill(throwing weapon) . . so what exactly does missle mastery DO? |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 12th April 2022 - 04:27 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.