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> Riggers!, What are the basics one needs???
Kagetenshi
post Jan 20 2008, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (Bastard @ Jan 20 2008, 02:51 PM)
In other news, here is what we did for his character:

Gear: Bulldog Sec van, a workshop, two Shiawase spiders, Ruger Thunderbolt
Cyberware: VCR-3, Smart Link
Bioware: Synaptic Accelerator-2, Enhanced Articulation, Cerebral Booster-2

IMO: either drop the Synaptic Accelerator or bring the VCR-III down to a VCR-II (I think you know which one I suggest). Remember that trying to compete with dedicated combat characters in meatspace will only make you a mediocre fighter /and/ rigger, while specializing in rigging at chargen (when you have a lot of cash and high skills are cheap) and becoming a passable fighter later is quite doable.

QUOTE
Didnt have enough money or essence for a Control Deck, is that necessary or can we buy it later?  We may have to remake if its necessary.

A Remote Control Deck is absolutely critical, but since you mention Essence you're probably confusing it with the Cranial Remote Deck, which is absolutely skippable.

Edit: regarding the Thunderbolt:

CC, p19: "Because it is the chosen weapon of Lone Star, officers of that organization can recognize the sound of a Thunderbolt being fired from a considerable distance, and will harass and/or detain any non-Lone Star person carrying one."

Note that they do not do so in a manner consistent with the law, as the legality code is 2P-E. It gets you more unwanted attention, but is no less legal or more difficult to get a permit for (on the books) than any other Heavy Pistol.

~J
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Fortune
post Jan 20 2008, 09:20 PM
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Thanks Kagetenshi. :)
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Stahlseele
post Jan 20 2008, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (Fortune)
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jan 21 2008, 06:42 AM)
in SR 3rd ?

Yep. It was originally released as a Lone Star only weapon in SR2 (or even SR1), but as of the time of SR3, the weapon has been deregulated. No proof of what I am saying though, as I don't have access to the SR3 books.

QUOTE
and the availability of 14/12 days?


I made no comment as to the Availability. High Availability does not always equate to illegality.

mebbe, but coming from you, i'll simply accept it as good *g*
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Telion
post Jan 21 2008, 05:07 AM
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I agree with stahlseele, drop the articulation or go VCR-2, the benefit of articulation is mostly for a more generalist character. Not sure I'd go with the synaptic accellerator either if your planning to stay mostly in the machine. Based on this build it looks like your going more generalist, where you can fight from the machine or in the fray.

I personally go with a VCR-3 since I tend to dedicate myself to the job. Typically I'll usually go alpha for that much needed meat space my future upgrades will include.

Some advice:

A problem I've found with my rigger characters is always running out of skill points. So in the end I've usually opted for taking no more than 1 vehicle repair skill and having a GM Mr. Fixit or 2 complete with autosofts for my basic vehicle repairs.

I'd suggest taking the SUT skill at some point, specialization in IVIS if your team won't gain much benefit from it.

Don't bother with Encryption for an initial character, the cost to implement it on each drone across the board and on the RC deck gets quite costly, I do quickly buy this upgrade as soon as I can. Remember they all have to be running at the same rating or it will fail.

Other upgrades can be skipped as well but I'd recommend anything that can go directly on the RC deck only be bought at a fairly high rating.

An edge I never pass up is connected (3 points) vehicles. so I have a contact I can buy vehicles from without street index.

I'd suggest a router of some sort so you can hook up external devices like offline storage to your deck. Lots of other uses as well and not too expensive.

sleep regulators and jolt alerts can be your friend.

3 drones to look into are the steel lynx if you want a mini tank, lone star strato for a rotor drone with good manueverability and an MMG, and the previously mentioned condors with some form of photogenic paint/camo/rheuthenium polymer to make a nice hidden eye in the sky.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 21 2008, 05:32 AM
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I would actually advise against going alphaware on the VCR—it means you need a big wad of cash to upgrade later, but on the other hand it saves you about 30% of your budget to start (for the VCR-3). Plus, there's not that much 'ware you really need as a Rigger, and the stuff that would be most useful needs highly advanced 'ware to use.

*Mutters things about how they made the Tactical Computer useful primarily to Riggers and then made the Essence Cost so steep that you need either both to be betaware or one to be deltaware and the other alpha to get them into the same character*

Edit: I'd also advise away from Condors—wait, I'm smoking crack. Damn it, why do these things have to have another name? Yeah, I'm a big fan of the LDSDs. Mini-blimps for the win.

~J
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 21 2008, 05:44 AM
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Some vehicles made according to the vehicle design rules:

CODE
Vector Kimji

Chassis: Micro UAV (Markup .25)

Power Plant: Electric Fuel Cell

DPV: 313

Final Cost: ¥7,825

Hand. 4, Speed 50, Accel 4, Body 0, Armor 0, Sig 12, Auto 0, Pilot 1, Sensor 1, Cargo 0, Load 0, Fuel EC (9 PF), Econ .25 Km/PF

Spotlight, Infrared Spotlight


CODE
Aztechnology Incinerator

Chassis: Small UAV (Markup .25)

Power Plant: Electric Fuel Cell

Starting Load: 5

Max Speed: 90

Max Accel: 12

Max Econ: .5

DPV: 199  

Final Cost: ¥5,975

Hand. 4, Speed 40, Accel 3, Body 1, Armor 0, Sig 8, Auto 0, Pilot 1, Sensor 1, Cargo 0, Load 94, Fuel E (100 PF), Econ .2 Km/PF

Flamethrower (22 shots, SS, 8M) Spotlight, Infrared Spotlight, Remote-Control Interface, Rigger Adaptation


CODE
Knight Errant Shield/Lone Star Autonomous Riot Control Barrier

Chassis: Medium Crawler (Tracked) (Markup .25)

Power Plant: Electric Fuel Cell

Starting CF: 2 (12 max)

Starting Load: 10

Max Speed: 100

Max Accel: 8

Max Econ: 2.5

DPV: 522

Final Cost: ¥13,058

Hand. 4/4, Speed 25, Accel 3, Body 2, Armor 5, Sig 7, Auto 0, Pilot 1, Sensor 1, Cargo 1, Load 590, Fuel EFC (70 PF), Econ 1.25 Km/PF

Remote-Control Interface, Rigger Adaptation, Pintle Mount, Special Machinery*, External Firmpoint (SMG), Datajack Port, 60 cm Video Display, Spotlight, Infrared Spotlight, Small Platform With Handles.


The special machinery permits the upright shield component to rotate and lie flat, for carrying things (impromptu stretcher or moving pallet). Since it uses the Special Machinery magic, GMs will need to clear it individually (I mean, more so than any custom design).

CODE
Renraku Arachnoid Plus

Chassis: Micro Walker (Markup .25) (215 DPV)

Power Plant: Electric Fuel Cell

Starting Cargo: 0

Starting Load: 0

Max Speed: 8

Max Accel.:

Max Econ: 2 Km/PF

DPV:  836

Final Cost: ¥20,900

Hand. 4/4, Speed 2, Accel. , Body 0, Armor , Sig 12, Auto , Pilot 1, Sensor 1, Cargo 0.6, Load 6, Seating , Entry , Fuel EC (4 PF), Econ .5 Km/PF

Rigger Adaptation, Remote-Control Interface, Engine Enviroseal, Water Enviroseal, Amphibious Operation Package II (Speed 30 in water, no Handling modifier), Spotlight, Infrared Spotlight, L5 Encryption


CODE
Saeder-Krupp Schattenauge

Chassis: Miniblimp

Power Plant: Electric

DPV: 739

Final Cost: ¥36,950

Hand. 4, Speed 75, Accel 5, Body 2, Armor 0, Sig 10, Auto 0, Pilot 3, Sensor 6, Cargo 3, Load 15, Fuel E (65 PF), Econ 5 Km/PF

SunCell Power, Autosoft Interpretation System, Spotlight, Infrared Spotlight, Remote Control Interface, Rigger Adaptation

Variant: Schattenauge II

Above plus BattleTac FDDM Receiver Module (+350 DPV), total cost ¥54,450

Variant: Schattenauge S (or S II)

Above plus L5 Encryption (+250 DPV), total cost ¥49,450 or ¥66,950.


CODE
CATCo Lanceur Drone Deployment Vehicle

Chassis: Van (Markup 1.00)

Power Plant: Diesel

DPV: 635

Final Cost: ¥63,500

Hand. 1/7, Speed 80, Accel 4, Body 4, Armor 0, Sig 2, Auto 2, Pilot 2, Sensor 3, Cargo 48, Load 2,975, Seating 2, Entry 2d+1s+1g Fuel (95 l), Econ 4 Km/l

Drive-By-Wire 3, Drone Racks (200 CF), Photovoltaic Chameleon Paint, Spotlight, Infrared Spotlight, Remote-Control Interface, Rigger Adaptation

Variant: Smart Materials (+100 DPV, -1 Handling, +1 to Stress Tests)


I've used all of these except the Lanceur, flamedrone, and enhanced spider, IIRC. They're all pretty solid, though you may or may not want to be getting into the roles these fill.

~J
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wargear
post Jan 21 2008, 08:56 AM
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Get a small chunk of headware memory linked up to your VCR. Install your homebrew rank 9+ encryption algorithm in it. Add a chunk of memory to the Rigger interface of all your vehicles, with a nasty nasty Black IC installed.

Your encryption automatically allows you to access your vehicles. Anyone who lacks your gear gets smashed by the Black IC...and the VCR is not the usual direction for such attacks, so it will have little or no defence. Thief suffers horribly.

Just a neat little idea, that can work even from the beginning.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 21 2008, 08:58 AM
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FYI, Black IC can't be active on Rigger networks, and broadcast encryption is fundamentally different from data encryption in SR (and can't be programmed by oneself).

~J
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Fix-it
post Jan 21 2008, 02:38 PM
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Kage, those drones are beautiful.
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Stahlseele
post Jan 21 2008, 04:10 PM
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yeah, pretty good . . even if i wuld a)include the translation of Schattenauge[Shadoweye{Eye of Shadow(s)}] and b)probably not give a drone IR-Sensorics if it's going to be armed with a Flamethrower *g*
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 21 2008, 04:15 PM
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Well, I didn't include the translation of lanceur, either :P ("launcher". I'm so imaginative.)

~J
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Stahlseele
post Jan 21 2008, 05:02 PM
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yeah, but that's french . .
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Pendaric
post Jan 21 2008, 05:30 PM
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link
Here's a list of micro UVA drones.
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tisoz
post Jan 22 2008, 08:10 AM
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My suggestion is to check R3, page 27 under Reflex Boosters.

QUOTE
Unless otherwise noted, implants that boost a character's physical Quickness, Reaction or Initiative will not effect a Rigger's Reaction or Control Pool while rigging.  These include the adrenal pump, cyberlimb enhancements, enhanced articulation, move-by-wire, muscle toner, reaction enhancers, suprathyroid gland, synaptic accelerator and wired reflexes.


Notice enhanced articulation is no extra help to rigging. Cerebral Booster is listed in the paragraph preceding the quoted one as saying any derived Reaction bonus does apply. I have seen a few riggers with maxxed out Reaction that overlooked this paragraph, then created new characters when it was pointed out to them.

The paragraph does give some good news in a backhanded sort of way. Most riggers are high Reaction, therefore usually high Quickness. Getting a cyberlimb usually costs them a point or more of Quickness when averaged with other limbs. However, using the verbiage above, the lost Quickness and any associated derived Reaction loss does not apply to rigging.

QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
*Mutters things about how they made the Tactical Computer useful primarily to Riggers and then made the Essence Cost so steep that you need either both to be betaware or one to be deltaware and the other alpha to get them into the same character*

The best way I have seen to implement the Tactical Computer is installing it in a Cyberlimb, or partial cyberlimb. Then it only costs an additional .5 Essence, and the character can afford the orientation system.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 22 2008, 12:04 PM
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There's no point to getting the Orientation System, though; each point of Sensor counts as an entire extra sense, and doesn't cost Essence.

That said,thanks for pointing that out—I always overlook cyberlimbs, probably because they're so bad the vast majority of the time.

~J
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Stahlseele
post Jan 22 2008, 01:18 PM
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so house-rule them O.o
style is important, nobody should get Problems because of style requirements!
use the 4th Rules for Limbs in 3rd for example ^^
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 22 2008, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele)
so house-rule them O.o

I have, but when making characters I generally assume that I'm a player, and as such lack the authority to make house rules. I'll continue assuming canon SR3 rules when making characters until SR3R is far enough along to start assuming.

QUOTE
style is important, nobody should get Problems because of style requirements!

That's what we have mohawks for.

QUOTE
use the 4th Rules for Limbs in 3rd for example ^^

And how would that help? Mixing in a totally different system with totally different price points, with all due respect, does not seem like a good idea.

(That's before we get to the point that adapting the 4th rules would require me to actually go back and reread them, which has been a dysphoric experience every time I've done it.)

~J
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Stahlseele
post Jan 22 2008, 01:37 PM
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let me precicise(SP?)
use the augmentation rules, that's the first time i actually thought of limbs worthwhile . .
Use Prices of SR4, use Limb-Rules of SR4 converted to 3rd standard . . if needed be BRIBE your SL *g*
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Enigma
post Jan 22 2008, 02:10 PM
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All good points thus far. My two cents are as follows.

There is absolutely no substitute for solid surveillance capability, in fact this is the primary use for riggers in games I run and play. Putting a couple of very stealthy drones over a target for a few days prior to the main event means priceless intel. This has always meant having a sh*tload of memory on your RC deck, through external storage media or whatever, and generally mini-blimp drones made with a high signature stat and the suncell adaption (so they rarely run out of power). Remember surveillance can be vehicle sensors as well, not just drones - parking a car with decent sensors in the long-term parking lot over the road from the target is good cover too.

I agree with the step van. You really can't have a rigger without a decent van.

Generally I go for Connected 5 (vehicles, drones and accessories). The reason is that car theft and drone theft with the right gear is a fantastic side line for keeping up the cash flow on what is a very cash-hungry character type. Ensure the GM is OK with that first, however, because not everyone likes characters to have such side-lines for cash.

My personal preference with all drones is having onboard memory on the drone with at least a minimal pilot and autonav rating. If the carrier signal is lost (rigger gets knocked out, jamming, have to go offline for some reason etc) the onboard memory runs a pre-written program which basically says 'go to point X quietly and wait there for instructions'. This way your drones are much more recoverable in emergency situations. There are rules for writing such programs in SR3.

Electronics is a vital skill. Remember you can put an RF scanner (from SOTA2064) on drones, in vehicles and so on so you can triangulate enemy signals quickly and accurately. You can have a go at broadcast decryption to 'hack' enemy radio frequencies and stuff with them. Surveillance drones also benefit from the specialised Intelligence-type sensors (highly refined visual and audio at the cost of the other systems, especially good for surveillance).

I have always found Electronic Deception worth the huge cost. Being able to insert false readings on enemy sensor networks is pure gold. In the right circumstance it is just as good as a mage with an illusion spell for creating a distraction.

Combat drones need to be able to fly. It's as simple as that. The tactical versatility of a flying drone cannot be underestimated, and nothing sucks more than when your rigger has to leave behind their multi-thousand-nuyen drone to hold off the ravening hordes whilst the rest of the players escape. One flying combat drone is worth many wheeled combat bricks.

Sniper drones (mini-blimps or rotor drones) are beautiful if the GM will let them happen, but most GMs find these too annoying. Loading an 11S single silenced shot from 100m up into the heads of NPCs is a very fast way to win fights and annoy the GM.

Finally, chuck a few MGL-12s onto a few cheap-as-anything flying frisbee drones. Nothing puts up a smoke cover like two of these dumping IR smoke grenades, four per turn, anywhere and everywhere. For extra effect have one load smoke and one load pepper punch gas - this virtually guaruntees a successful getaway from pursuers on foot.
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 22 2008, 02:19 PM
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Sniper Drone Wars is one of our group's few mostly-unspoken taboos. It makes a huge amount of sense to use sniper blimpdrones, but that goes for NPCs as well, and while we generally dislike the solution of voluntarily ignoring things that make sense to do in-game, we've collectively decided that we have more fun in a game where characters who are visible from the sky don't have their heads explode in essentially unresistible ways.

So yeah, be very careful of what you may start there.

~J
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Stahlseele
post Jan 22 2008, 02:56 PM
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have Droner-bombers . . load them up with grenades of all kinds . . Thermo-smoke, Stun-Grenades, Gas-Grenades . . SLIP-SPRAY mwahahahaha! . .
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Fix-it
post Jan 22 2008, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE (Enigma)

Combat drones need to be able to fly. It's as simple as that. The tactical versatility of a flying drone cannot be underestimated, and nothing sucks more than when your rigger has to leave behind their multi-thousand-nuyen drone to hold off the ravening hordes whilst the rest of the players escape. One flying combat drone is worth many wheeled combat bricks.

The problem with flying drones is their inability to punch through and get into buildings.

let's face it. the steel lynx is a miniature tank, and nothing scares the crap out of the enemy as tank-shocking through a wall. you can't do that with a rotodrone.

and imho, I'd leave the lynx behind. I would also pack it full of command detonated explosives, once it had outlived it's usefullness as a delaying and decoy.

I agree with you that flying drones are more versatile. but sometimes you need the brick.

the MGL-12 is something I'll have to try on a flying drone sometime...
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Kagetenshi
post Jan 22 2008, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (Fix-it @ Jan 22 2008, 09:59 AM)
The problem with flying drones is their inability to punch through and get into buildings.

Only buildings that don't have windows :grinbig:

As for leaving the lynx behind, at ¥34,500 before encryption or upgrades, it would take very lucrative missions to make that reasonable. You wouldn't get the armor or weapons, but it would be half the price to buy a cheap car to ram into the building, even accounting for the price of adding in remote-control adaptation.

~J
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tisoz
post Jan 22 2008, 03:23 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
There's no point to getting the Orientation System, though; each point of Sensor counts as an entire extra sense, and doesn't cost Essence.

That said,thanks for pointing that out—I always overlook cyberlimbs, probably because they're so bad the vast majority of the time.

~J

Don't you still need a dedicated port for each sensor type? Each port costs .1 essence in a cyberlimb, while the Orientation System doesn't take up any by itself but needs a .1 DNI to operate. The Orientation System gives 2 points worth of senses for .1 Essence and is going to be usable in about every situation. Some types of Sensor will not always apply. Plus its uses outside of Tactical Computer use.

Also, the Orientation System is part of the internal system, where as Sensors have to be purchased for every drone/vehicle, so you can get by with lower rating (less costly) sensors when supported with the OS for purposes of the TC.
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Stahlseele
post Jan 22 2008, 03:58 PM
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basically you're installing sensors into your cyberarm with that thing *g*
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