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 The Star and (forbidden) Cyberware |
 Jan 22 2008, 06:38 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 772 Joined: 12-December 07 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 14,589  |
Any doctor who would perform surgery on a patient that doesn't comply would lose his license and, more than likely, go to jail for a pretty hefty amount of time. It's tantamount to me taking a knife and cutting up a guy on the street. Now performing surgery to take a bullet out of an unconscious patient is one thing, but you can't, for instance, perform an appendectomy on a Jehovah's Witness to save their life when they refuse it. Crazy religious people die every year because of it, a lot of them prisoners who found Jesus on the inside. And while ethics may be a little less common in the Sixth World's medical community, doctors have been taking the oath since the days of Aristotle, so I don't think they would stop after only 65 years of turmoil and chaos. That being said, while doctors have taken an oath to do no harm, they often have and do. Everything from the lobotomy to Jonas Saulk giving kids polio. I still think, as a matter of general practice, it is less likely anyone would yank your cyberware out than put you on probation and make you consent to taking it out. |
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Jan 22 2008, 07:30 PM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 772 Joined: 12-December 07 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 14,589 |
Now if someone who wasn't a doctor wanted to rip out your cyberware...
Heck, whose going to miss a SINless Shadowrunner? Maybe a prison breakout run is necessary? |
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Jan 22 2008, 07:51 PM
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#28
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Law Enforcement has the legal right to consent or not consent for people in custody. Exactly how far that extends I'm unsure of, but it covers EMT/ED level stuff.
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Jan 22 2008, 09:04 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
DNI won't be just a little module it would be a highly integrated system. Cyberware is controlled by the body not by a comlink or other outside source. And once again if the guy was resourceful enough to have the ware installed to begin with they are going to be resourceful enough to replace one part. Now if you remove the entire bit of ware they may be able to get it replaced but the entire model is bound to cost a lot more then one part. When it comes to forbidden cyberware you deal chiefly with weapons which would obviously be removed from the subject. If your cyberarm has a built in weapon or say you have the wolverine style claws installed prepare to lose them if you get arrested, unless of course your able to bribe them. illegal Bioware is where its really tricky Tailored Phermones are the easiest to detect but most obviously some corp makes the stuff so its legal somewhere. The Super Thyroid gland is another example thought the gland would be much harder to detect. But a full body scan with X-rays and everything should easily reveal most bioware. Cyberlimb guns can be made quite easily I'd imagine even perhaps a go-ganger could do the modifications. All you really need to do is attached a smartlinked gun to a cyberarm and you effectively have it a cyberlimb gun. |
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Jan 22 2008, 09:20 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 22-November 06 Member No.: 9,934 |
the issue isn't that after lonestar "takes care" of the illegal modification the runner cna get it turned back on. think about it, today you get pulled over and fined for driving without a license, you can then without a license drive to the courthouse, pay your fine, and leave they don't really care too much. I've gotten stopped for a faulty tail light and informed the officer I had a concealed firearm, when he asked if I had a license I said yes but had forgotten my license at home, he didn't really care, didn't check up on it or anything just said "okay I just stopped you to let you know you have a busted tailight." in your games you have to remember the lonestar people are people not robots they don't ALWAYS react the way their operational book dictates. people get lazy or "have seen it all." and then of course you have the jerks who strip search you on the side of the road because you don't know enough to say "hey no searchy!" if the illegal ware is simply a fine, then that's all that happens they fine you and don't disable it and send you on your way. (unles you are a citizen, or Sinless). disabling the DNI interface is easy its principle is the same as a wake on LAN for today's computers you just shut down the port, and you can't use the DNI to turn it back on. no surgery required. you also have to remember technolgy like this is not foreign to law enforcement individuals. and even law enforcment people sometimes think certain laws are stupid. in my games if you are in a low security zone and a star patrolman sees you have Dermal plating he's prolly not even going to ask you to show your permit, he'll most likely nod in you direction or wave, in an A sector he might talk to you first, conversation etc.. "how's it goin what brings you to this side of town etc..." if he sees you get out of a fight by brandishing blades, he's not going to haul you off for "intent" he might warn you about it, but its probably self defense, the main thing to note is that you aren't going to get hassled EVERY time you walk out the door, and into the path of the lonestar. @Fortinbras: cyberpunk genre is a dark and forboding feel, street docs, tanimous, etc... they have doctors that do their dirtywork, and Lonestar I'm sure has contacts to them. its not even a futuristic version of real life, its just shadowrun. edit: the above reactions are assuming the player has common sense and doesn't go "PIGS SUCK!!!" and throw feces at the officers etc... |
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Jan 22 2008, 10:46 PM
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#31
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,326 Joined: 15-April 02 Member No.: 2,600 |
It seems like some of the illegal cyberware is offensive, in the sense that its basically a weapon. Removing it, while requiring surgery, is required to disarm the person. The law doesn't really cover this currently, but likewise people aren't capable of installing shotguns in their cyberarms or implanting blades that pop out of their forearms.
If you're SINless and in posession of restricted or forbidden cyberware, then its probably coming out, one way or another unless you have a good lawyer and some resources to call upon. That's pretty draconian from a game perspective, but its hard to justify Lone Star (or any corp) turning people loose on the street with supposedly dangerous stuff in them. (I say supposedly because there are things on the F and R list like Tailored Pheremones and Dermal Plating, which aren't offensive in nature.) And it seems like Lone Star would also be looking to implant that stuff into their HTR teams, so its not like it would go to waste. I'd be all for giving the pc's an out here and there, otherwise for a sammie its pretty much the end of the character, a fate worse than death. One day you're an amped up cybermonster, the next you're Joe Average with no Essence and a criminal SIN. (Essence is still gone forever, isn't it? They didn't change that in SR4?) |
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Jan 22 2008, 11:09 PM
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#32
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,526 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
to an extent . . if you remove mcyber/bio and have the monies you can get gene treatment to get essence back . . yes, you may curse now *g*
while we're at it . . am i blind or did the articulate cyber-arm for the back of the cyber-torso vanish? o.O |
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Jan 23 2008, 01:28 AM
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#33
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
you're blind. page 42/43 of augmentation, "weapon mounts" includes both an articulated arm and a shoulder/limb mounted version. |
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Jan 23 2008, 02:31 AM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 772 Joined: 12-December 07 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 14,589 |
Not in the great state of Texas, you can't. You get pulled over here(where Lone Star is from) with a suspended license and you go to jail. You then bond out(money) and, if it is a county matter, you pay for a lawyer(money), he talks the DA down to 6 moths pre-paid insurance(money), or a fine(money) or probation(which you pay for) and then you pay court costs(money). If it's a city matter you usually just bond out and pay 200-500 dollars. In any event, you will do jail time if you don't get your license reinstated. In the current system it's all about getting paid. Now imagine if it were run by a greedy, multi-national corporation. But I do agree with you that the letter of the law is rarely followed on the street. I have been pulled over with a firearm in the vehicle, told the officer and he let me slide. I've also been pulled over for a "broken taillight", which I didn't have, and had my car pulled apart and searched by five different officers. In the first scenario I was a white guy, driving outside of Clarksville, Texas, the cop was from the same hometown as my driver's license said and he had known my grandfather. That gave me crazy bonuses to my Charisma + Con roll. In the second I had long hair down to my butt and was driving away from the Kerville Music Festival, a pretty well established hippie joint where cannabis is not unknown. I was at a negative 6 for my Charisma roll to get out a search. You could have knocked that cop over with a feather when he found out that not only was I sober, I was the only person he had ever pulled over from the festival who didn't take in for possession, so he did have a reasonable right to be suspicious, but not so on paper. The point being, that you can always find a way to manuever and manipulate Lone Star into helping the plot along because no two situations are the same. |
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Jan 23 2008, 04:20 AM
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#35
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
DNI cyberware is controlled, specifically, through links to your nervous system. for ease of design and maintenance, it seems likely to me that these links would be consolidated as much as possible. higher grades of 'ware might have redundant or decentralized links, making them harder to disable this way, but for the most part it should be a fairly simple operation. |
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Jan 23 2008, 01:06 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 22-November 06 Member No.: 9,934 |
I live in texas, I guess your from the more uptight side of this nation sized state =P on the subject of being searched...I think I need to start a new thread... getting the DNI turned back on would have to be surgery, but even if it had to involve surgery to completely remove a cyber system... perhaps a run could be done where the runners are hired to affect the outcome of a case invovling a perfectly legal installation of illegal ware, in a Citizen, who just happen to "go bad" precidents are going to be set in that trial and "someone" wants them to go in their favor... |
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Jan 23 2008, 04:30 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 271 Joined: 18-April 06 Member No.: 8,481 |
I think that one guiding principle of the law in an SR4 game is that the GM should never go "HEY PLAYERS! F*CK YOU!!"
That's what you're doing if you say "the police catch you, disable/take away all your ware, and fine you all of your money, and let you go." It's nothing other than giving someone the choice of being worthless or starting a new character, which is no choice at all. If the GM wants to keep the players interested, the GM should play ball with the characters. Which means the cops/corps who capture them should play ball too. Think about it from an enforcer's perspective: here I have immense power over a very dangerous person loaded with illegal hardware who doesn't exist. Should I a) chew him up and spit him out and earn nothing, or b) get something for my trouble? Another non-choice. There are tons of ways a creative GM can work with an arrested player. For instance, maybe it's a bad cop who's trying to extort money from a local biz, and having the place trashed by a scary cyberman might just send the right message. Maybe it's a good cop who sees a chance to fight fire with fire -- he'll send the evil runner to kill some evil criminals. He can't legally do anything to the criminals because he doesn't have the evidence, but if he sends a shadowrunner, he has no liability, and either the bad runner dies or the bad criminals die, in both cases a good thing. Maybe he just wants a new car, so if you steal his and let him collect the insurance, he'll let you go. In any event, players should be able to make deals with cops unless they are really stupid. They're not going to bargain with a cop killer, or a known mass murderer, since the value of taking them down is greater than what they could get in exchange. But in those cases, we're not talking about deactivating your illegal ware, fining you, and letting you go. We're talking about summary execution. But if you're picked up for non-violent crimes, or especially if you're just picked up for having illegal ware, they are going to make some sort of deal with you. Otherwise it's just not going to be a fun game... |
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