The Final Call on the Panther Cannon

The Final Call on the Panther Cannon, Was this errata'd?

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Stahlseele

Jan 25 2008, 11:10 PM

Post #51

The ShadowComedian

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QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)

...what, the Panther canon or Japanese schoolgirl? :grinbig:

both *g*

Fortune

Jan 25 2008, 11:53 PM

Post #52

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QUOTE (JonathanC)

So, what part of the book provides the information I'd need to guesstimate what kind of strength you'd need to fire a Panther Assault cannon? And what about the recoil?

I guarantee that I could pull the trigger on a weapon that outweighed me by thousands of pounds. I don't think a strength minimum should be required to 'fire' a weapon. As for carrying it I have seen African kids of 2 or 3 or 4 (or whatever), too small to effectively lift and hold their AK-47s. Instead, they just grab it by the barrel and drag it behind them until they get to where they can prop it up (or lie prone) and use it.

Recoil really isn't all that much of a problem. Fluff says that the weapon has a kick. So what? It is only Single Shot, so whatever kick it has is already taken into consideration prior to the next time the weapon can be fired.

MaxMahem

Jan 26 2008, 12:11 AM

Post #53

Moving Target

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QUOTE (JonathanC)

So, what part of the book provides the information I'd need to guesstimate what kind of strength you'd need to fire a Panther Assault cannon? And what about the recoil? If I apply recoil modifiers, I'm technically countermanding the rules. If I don't, I'm going against what's in the flavor text.

Really, I think you are harping on the wrong problem here. By the RAW a STR score of 1 is sufficient, which is logical. It doesn't take a super-athlete to wield and fire even a very large rifle. If you are strong enough to lift it (which there are rules for) you can probably use a single-shot weapon like the Assault Cannon effectively. In game terms even a sub-average weakling can do it.

I can see where you might have an issue having small children firing such a weapon. But unless (as other have said) you are playing kiddyrun, this is likely to only be an issue for you, the GM. So you are free to apply any penalty that you deem appropriate, for small children with assault cannons. I would go with -2 or so. You players are not likely to be complaining about the size of the penalty you are applying to children with panther cannons. Personally I would probably be more concerned where these children got the schooling in using Heavy Weapons. Though I admit it could make for a interesting run...

The real question you should be asking is, what the heck IS the assault cannon? It's been around since like 2nd edition or so, and its still not clear. Logically it doesn't match up with any real-world weapon we have or any we really imagine. There just aren't man-portable weapons that fire large high-explosive shells at significant velocities. I tend to think of it as something like Bato's big gun from Ghost in the Shell, but really there is no clear answer, its picture certainly doesn't make sense.

Lyonheart

Jan 26 2008, 12:19 AM

Post #54

Target

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QUOTE (JonathanC)

QUOTE (Lyonheart @ Jan 24 2008, 05:21 PM)

Lack of a listed weight does not make them weightless, just like your troll can't go around armed with a Ares Citymaster strapped to his back, 6yr olds don't get Panther Cannons. Though the Japanese School girl may get a pass it it's that sort of game.

And based on what rule are you denying a 6 year old the right to carry a Panther? A Citymaster is a vehicle, and vehicles are never carried by characters. A Panther is a weapon. It has no listed weight. Who's to say that you can't carry one with a strength score of 1? There's no listing for what strength score would be required.

Can you give me a rules quote that says vehicles are not carried by characters, of course not, your basing that on LOGIC, the same logic that prevents a 6yr old from toting a cannon.

Kremlin KOA

Jan 26 2008, 12:26 AM

Post #55

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QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)

...what, the Panther canon or Japanese schoolgirl? :grinbig:

hehehe

I prefer college girls

that was just my impression of a 6 year old in an Assault cannon store

Fortune

Jan 26 2008, 12:28 AM

Post #56

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QUOTE (Kremlin KOA)

I prefer college girls

College girls still go to school, so they count! ;)

Kremlin KOA

Jan 26 2008, 12:30 AM

Post #57

Shooting Target

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QUOTE (DireRadiant)

Now if you want to have a rule published to make me do what you want, well, then we'll need to have a little chat about that.

Funny you should mention that.
In the next Errata, any time the Gm or players use, mention, or think about the Vory v Zakone, the table must send $10 to my Paypal account :eek: :eek: :P :P :P

Mercer

Jan 26 2008, 02:17 AM

Post #58

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QUOTE (MaxMahem)

The real question you should be asking is, what the heck IS the assault cannon? It's been around since like 2nd edition or so, and its still not clear. Logically it doesn't match up with any real-world weapon we have or any we really imagine. There just aren't man-portable weapons that fire large high-explosive shells at significant velocities. I tend to think of it as something like Bato's big gun from Ghost in the Shell, but really there is no clear answer, its picture certainly doesn't make sense.

I've always thought of Panther Cannons as anti-tank rifles, although I guess a more modern version would be the anti-materiel rifle. I've always preferred Panther Cannons to be in the 20mm caliber, particularly because:

QUOTE (wiki)

Like most cannon ammunition, 20 mm caliber weapons are typically used against large targets such as vehicles, buildings, or aircraft. Though effective against individual soldiers, 20 mm ammunition is so large and heavy that its effects are nearly all wasted on relatively small targets.

In a world with juggernauts, megladons and dragons (oh my), I could see a weapon like this becoming a lot more popular. (Also, given that an "individual soldier" might be ten feet tall or made primarily of titanium, they might no longer be considered small targets.)

cx2

Jan 26 2008, 02:25 AM

Post #59

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Fortune)

QUOTE (Kremlin KOA @ Jan 26 2008, 11:26 AM)

I prefer college girls

College girls still go to school, so they count! ;)

Depends what part of the world you're from :P

I always was amused by the tendency for Americans to blur the line between school, college and university.

Fortune

Jan 26 2008, 02:31 AM

Post #60

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QUOTE (cx2)

I always was amused by the tendency for Americans to blur the line between school, college and university.

It isn't as much a blurred lined as a category. Engaging in employment for renumeration is known as 'work', while attending an institute dedicated to education is called 'school'.

And what makes you think I'm American?

Starmage21

Jan 26 2008, 03:28 AM

Post #61

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QUOTE (Mercer)

QUOTE (MaxMahem)

The real question you should be asking is, what the heck IS the assault cannon? It's been around since like 2nd edition or so, and its still not clear. Logically it doesn't match up with any real-world weapon we have or any we really imagine. There just aren't man-portable weapons that fire large high-explosive shells at significant velocities. I tend to think of it as something like Bato's big gun from Ghost in the Shell, but really there is no clear answer, its picture certainly doesn't make sense.

I've always thought of Panther Cannons as anti-tank rifles, although I guess a more modern version would be the anti-materiel rifle. I've always preferred Panther Cannons to be in the 20mm caliber, particularly because:

QUOTE (wiki)

Like most cannon ammunition, 20 mm caliber weapons are typically used against large targets such as vehicles, buildings, or aircraft. Though effective against individual soldiers, 20 mm ammunition is so large and heavy that its effects are nearly all wasted on relatively small targets.

In a world with juggernauts, megladons and dragons (oh my), I could see a weapon like this becoming a lot more popular. (Also, given that an "individual soldier" might be ten feet tall or made primarily of titanium, they might no longer be considered small targets.)

I agree with this.

MaxMahem

Jan 26 2008, 03:34 AM

Post #62

Moving Target

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QUOTE (Mercer)

QUOTE (MaxMahem)

The real question you should be asking is, what the heck IS the assault cannon? It's been around since like 2nd edition or so, and its still not clear. Logically it doesn't match up with any real-world weapon we have or any we really imagine. There just aren't man-portable weapons that fire large high-explosive shells at significant velocities. I tend to think of it as something like Bato's big gun from Ghost in the Shell, but really there is no clear answer, its picture certainly doesn't make sense.

I've always thought of Panther Cannons as anti-tank rifles, although I guess a more modern version would be the anti-materiel rifle. I've always preferred Panther Cannons to be in the 20mm caliber, particularly because:

QUOTE (wiki)

Like most cannon ammunition, 20 mm caliber weapons are typically used against large targets such as vehicles, buildings, or aircraft. Though effective against individual soldiers, 20 mm ammunition is so large and heavy that its effects are nearly all wasted on relatively small targets.

In a world with juggernauts, megladons and dragons (oh my), I could see a weapon like this becoming a lot more popular. (Also, given that an "individual soldier" might be ten feet tall or made primarily of titanium, they might no longer be considered small targets.)

You're interpretation is a common one, but I don't think it exactly matches the fluff, which describes some sort of very large caliber weapon (at least 20mm, probably larger) which fires explosive shells of some sort. The images certainly look nothing like any sort of modern or past anti-material rifle. I honestly think that some sort of AAA cannon is probably the best fit to the fluff, like the Bofors 40 mm cannon or something. Of course having such a weapon be man-portable (or even-troll portable) is pushing the limit of realism. Anti-material rifles are probably closer to the larger and more deadly variants of sniper rifles in the fluff.

Can't say the concept isn't cool though :P

Starmage21

Jan 26 2008, 04:43 AM

Post #63

Moving Target

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QUOTE (MaxMahem)

QUOTE (Mercer @ Jan 25 2008, 09:17 PM)

QUOTE (MaxMahem)

The real question you should be asking is, what the heck IS the assault cannon? It's been around since like 2nd edition or so, and its still not clear. Logically it doesn't match up with any real-world weapon we have or any we really imagine. There just aren't man-portable weapons that fire large high-explosive shells at significant velocities. I tend to think of it as something like Bato's big gun from Ghost in the Shell, but really there is no clear answer, its picture certainly doesn't make sense.

I've always thought of Panther Cannons as anti-tank rifles, although I guess a more modern version would be the anti-materiel rifle. I've always preferred Panther Cannons to be in the 20mm caliber, particularly because:

QUOTE (wiki)

Like most cannon ammunition, 20 mm caliber weapons are typically used against large targets such as vehicles, buildings, or aircraft. Though effective against individual soldiers, 20 mm ammunition is so large and heavy that its effects are nearly all wasted on relatively small targets.

In a world with juggernauts, megladons and dragons (oh my), I could see a weapon like this becoming a lot more popular. (Also, given that an "individual soldier" might be ten feet tall or made primarily of titanium, they might no longer be considered small targets.)

You're interpretation is a common one, but I don't think it exactly matches the fluff, which describes some sort of very large caliber weapon (at least 20mm, probably larger) which fires explosive shells of some sort. The images certainly look nothing like any sort of modern or past anti-material rifle. I honestly think that some sort of AAA cannon is probably the best fit to the fluff, like the Bofors 40 mm cannon or something. Of course having such a weapon be man-portable (or even-troll portable) is pushing the limit of realism. Anti-material rifles are probably closer to the larger and more deadly variants of sniper rifles in the fluff.

Can't say the concept isn't cool though :P

The Barret 121T from SR3 cannon companion is the biggest "rifle" class weapon ever published in the game.

20mm ammo is quite capable of some serious explosive effects, and it certainly IS used on some APCs as a main gun.

MaxMahem

Jan 26 2008, 05:10 AM

Post #64

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QUOTE

The Barret 121T from SR3 cannon companion is the biggest "rifle" class weapon ever published in the game.

20mm ammo is quite capable of some serious explosive effects, and it certainly IS used on some APCs as a main gun.

There is a world of difference in the .50-20mm rounds used on some man-portable anti-material rifles and the 20-30mm rounds used on an APC.

A typical anti-material rifle round might be the .50BMG or something as big as the 14.5x114mm Russian. But modern rounds on an APC are even bigger than that. The M2 uses the massive 25mm NATO which is more than twice as large. And the trend seems to be of increasingly large rounds with most of the world up-gunning to even large 30mm weapons. Of course the Bofors round I was talking about is considerably larger than even that.

---

But this really isn't my point. I've got no beef with ruling the Assault Cannon an exceptionally large and powerful anti-material rifle, I just don't think it fits the fluff. Which describes something different, and the art which certainly looks different. But then again when you start talking very large anti-material rifles and smallish cannons used on APCs the differences in our opinions are not so far apart.

Also my point is that the fluff on the Assault Cannon really doesn't make a lot of sense, which I stand by.

lunchbox311 View Member Profile	Jan 26 2008, 04:56 PM Post #65
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 23-April 07 From: Aurora, CO Member No.: 11,514	Here is a close modern day one.... the barrett XM 109 http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/lunc...ox311/xm109.jpg It is a 25mm "payload" rifle. The shell it is using is a scaled down version of the apache helicopter cannon round (which is 30mm.) It is still an X class rifle because the recoil is a bit too high for most people.

Stahlseele View Member Profile	Jan 26 2008, 05:14 PM Post #66
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525	but then again, most people doesn't include Dwarves, Orcs and Trolls g

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Jan 26 2008, 05:43 PM Post #67
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	hell, i have at times envisioned it as a kind of handheld "mortar" :P maybe it was the previous edition art that made me think that way...

Stahlseele View Member Profile	Jan 26 2008, 05:51 PM Post #68
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525	it's more akin to the rocket launcher from UT or Quake i'd say . . it's a direct fire weapon that fires rocket propelled explosives, if i am thinking of the right weapon right now . .

cx2

Jan 26 2008, 06:49 PM

Post #69

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QUOTE (Fortune)

QUOTE (cx2 @ Jan 26 2008, 01:25 PM)

I always was amused by the tendency for Americans to blur the line between school, college and university.

It isn't as much a blurred lined as a category. Engaging in employment for renumeration is known as 'work', while attending an institute dedicated to education is called 'school'.

And what makes you think I'm American?

I apologise if I assumed. However from a British perspective "engaging in education" is called education, and school is primary(up to 11)/secondary(11-16/18 if they have sixth form) schools. It just strikes me as particularly odd to see "school" used as a categorisation.

Stahlseele View Member Profile	Jan 26 2008, 07:43 PM Post #70
The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525	Schoolgirl = Girl in School-Uniform, preferably with short skirt . . everything else is of secondary importance <.<

Kyoto Kid

Jan 27 2008, 01:25 AM

Post #71

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QUOTE (lunchbox311)

Here is a close modern day one.... the barrett XM 109

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/lunc...ox311/xm109.jpg

It is a 25mm "payload" rifle.

The shell it is using is a scaled down version of the apache helicopter cannon round (which is 30mm.)

It is still an X class rifle because the recoil is a bit too high for most people.

...isn't this the RL weapon they doctored up for Robocop? Or was it an M-82? Thought I saw something here on the forum but my search foo is too lazy today.

as to schoolgirls with big guns....

cute

You'll need to scroll down a little...

hobgoblin View Member Profile	Jan 27 2008, 01:52 AM Post #72
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242	it was some version of barret that "modified" for the movie(s) yes. i recall looking it up at one time.

Ed_209a View Member Profile	Jan 28 2008, 02:34 PM Post #73
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128	The Robocop Cobra Assault Cannon was a Barrett M82 with a gee-whiz scope bolted on top. It may have even been the viewer from one of the movie's cameras. I agree 100% with the Barret Payload rifle being a close match for a Panther Cannon.

Kyoto Kid View Member Profile	Jan 28 2008, 03:57 PM Post #74
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490	...Thanks. Kinda thought so as I discovered that the XM500 (the pic in LB311's link) didn't come out until 2006. (did a little more digging last night) BTW appropriate handle given the topic. :grinbig:

Ed_209a View Member Profile	Jan 28 2008, 09:22 PM Post #75
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 944 Joined: 19-February 03 Member No.: 4,128	"Please put down your weapon. You have 20 seconds to comply. " ;)

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