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[Rotbart van Dain...]

The Cyclops already has Smart Tires as Standard Upgrade.

Nope:

Std. Upgrades: Assembly Time Improvement, Motorcycle Gyro Stabilization

[Nightwalker450]

Ack, you switched bikes on me! I was talking about the Horizon Doble orinally. Smart tires would not give it +5 (it already has them), The cyclops yes would get to +5 if it used Smart Tires.

*mutter mutter* (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Anyways my other questions...

Also if included, handling should be assumed to be the average between on-road and off-road? Off-Road Suspension, this is a simple -1, +1. For Tracked would this be -2, +2, or otherwise stated the untracked version of the vehicle would have a Handling 1 less than listed?

Does Limited Maneuverabilty effectively add 4 slots to a drone? +4 is usually for subsets of devices (ie Weapon Mounts), but since this isn't a subset, thats what I'm thinking.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Handling is general handling, that means, on street - offroad handling only exists for those vehicles... and thus, they have a handling bonus of +2/+4.

[Nightwalker450]

Handling is general handling, that means, on street - offroad handling only exists for those vehicles... and thus, they have a handling bonus of +2/+4.

Is there a reference for that? Not questioning it, it makes sense (Roads are there for a reason, so default to using them), just wondering if I missed this mentioned somewhere.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

AFAIK, there is no reference whatsoever for the distinction Off- & On-Road Handling even existing - except from said modifications.

And if Arsenal ruling is the reference for Unwired... we might as well write our own rules since important stuff might be simply missing.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

A standard weapon is considered a “dumb� device with no Device rating and no wireless connection, so it cannot interact with the Matrix nor can it be manipulated through it.

Doesn't add up with:

A digital ammunition counter and wireless capability are standard equipment for modern firearms.

[hobgoblin]

i guess its likely a case of one writer not reading what another wrote...

still, the rule of thumb is that if books contradict, the most resent is right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
(and yes, i know what have been "promised")

[Ryu]

I´m for seamlessly integrating it by saying that the weapon comlink is standard equipment for modern firearms, it just did not make it into the main book.

[Feshy]

I finally bought the PDF today, and had some time to look over it. Here's some complaints:

Vehicle Modification - Armor: I had to read this section three times to understand it. There's a whole paragraph on smart armor, and following that paragraph the very next sentence reads "A vehicle can either have normal armor or concealed armor." Where's that smart armor we just read about fit in? It took me a while to realize that smart armor is an option you can get in addition to normal armor. Of course, the smart armor paragraph says things like "smart armor is superior to normal armor" and "smart armor can not be concealed" which very much give the impression that smart armor is a third type of armor rather than one that can be in addition to normal armor.

Secondly, on that same subject, Concealed and Smart armors list ratings of 1-20, even though they both cap at 10.

Thirdly, again on that same subject, there is no mention of how the armor that is included with nearly every vehicle in the book is treated. Is that Mercury Comet steel-plated, or is that armor concealed? It seems like it must be (excepting security vehicles), if everyday vehicles don't draw unwanted attention.

Weapon Modification - Propulsion System (Flying) -- this mod takes up 8 slots. Weapons have 6 slots. Does this mean that this modification really costs (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 40,000+ and requires game master approval every time?

PDF issues:

JPG blocks are "teh suk" -- and they are so extremely obvious on the plain gray backgrounds that have the vehicle pictures. In a world of terrabyte-sized hard drives, saving a bit of extra space with overly aggressive jpeg compression is a bad idea.

OMG CAPITAL BOOKMARKS EVERYWHERE. THEY ARE HARD TO READ.

That said, thank you very much for the (unfortunately optional) rules limiting armor modifications.

[Feshy]

One more: Why do Emotitoys rating 1-3 cost 1/2 as much as the emotion sense software they run -- and emotitoys rating 4-6 cost 1/5 as much as the software they run?

No wonder they are so popular with shadowrunners (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[MaxHunter]

Hey, I just caught on the Pravin Lal quote! Great game that!

Cheers,

Max

[siel]

I finally bought the PDF today, and had some time to look over it. Here's some complaints:

Vehicle Modification - Armor: I had to read this section three times to understand it. There's a whole paragraph on smart armor, and following that paragraph the very next sentence reads "A vehicle can either have normal armor or concealed armor." Where's that smart armor we just read about fit in? It took me a while to realize that smart armor is an option you can get in addition to normal armor. Of course, the smart armor paragraph says things like "smart armor is superior to normal armor" and "smart armor can not be concealed" which very much give the impression that smart armor is a third type of armor rather than one that can be in addition to normal armor.

Secondly, on that same subject, Concealed and Smart armors list ratings of 1-20, even though they both cap at 10.

Thirdly, again on that same subject, there is no mention of how the armor that is included with nearly every vehicle in the book is treated. Is that Mercury Comet steel-plated, or is that armor concealed? It seems like it must be (excepting security vehicles), if everyday vehicles don't draw unwanted attention.

but.. the book says
"A vehicle can either have normal armor or concealed armor. A vehicle with normal armor can be further equipped with smart armor. The maximum armor rating of each armor type a vehicle can have is twice its Body rating (or three times its Body rating for drones of the micro, mini, small, medium, and large size), up to a maximum of 20 with normal armor or 10 with concealed or smart armor."

So you have normal armor and can get smart armor on top of that.
The next part does seem a bit confusing. It seems to suggest concealed armor or smart armor only goes up to rating 10.

As for what the vehicles from core came with, there's a table on page 106. The limo's concealed armor of 12 suggest concealed armor can go above 10.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The standard modifications for Vehicles, including armor, are listed on p. 106.

Also, standard armor is design-interal while sharing the legal status of the vehicle - and not upgraded, but replaced by the modification.

[ICPick]

...the Cyber Dart Gun is the Oral Dart (kind of silly if you ask me). The issue with bows, even the pistol crossbow is they are too cumbersome (try to conceal a Jennings™ compound bow under your longcoat).

The original dart/Narcojet pistol had a concealbility of 7 which in 4th ed would place it in the light pistol class. Now if they grouped the Ares Super Squirt under Pistols skill (as it was in 3rd ed) that would be fine. As a matter of fact I am seriosuly considering doing just that in my campaigns for it is a way too useful weapon to limit to a "special" skill.

I believe, that originally the Supersquirt was the SMG class squirt (that did a shotgun spray as well), and the squirt was the light pistol class...... I could be wrong.

[KnightHawkRP]

I have a question on the PDF books in general. Can you print them? I know some pdf's are locked against that because they dont want us to reproduce, and I understand that... but I would really like to have a tabletop copy I can print out for reference. The computer is in another room and I dont like having to run back and forth if we have questions. Plus, Its just easier to thumb through something you can hold.

[GoldenAri]

I printed out the tables in the back for quick reference, so I'd assume you can print the whole thing.

[Kyoto Kid]

I believe, that originally the Supersquirt was the SMG class squirt (that did a shotgun spray as well), and the squirt was the light pistol class...... I could be wrong.

...that would be the Ares Cascade Rifle which in 3rd ed required either Rifle or Assault Rifle skill.

Could be that I messed up on the name and it was just called the Ares Squirt back in 3rd ed. Currently at work and don't have my PDFs handy to verify this.

[Feshy]

Why is a "Large Desktop Forge" :nuyen:150,000, availability 16R, while a "Workshop Forge" -- which is the same thing but mounted to a truck -- :nuyen:100,000 cheaper (though harder to find at 20R)?

[TonkaTuff]

The DMSO gun was just the 'Ares Squirt' in 1st edtion (Shadowtech). In 2nd, presumably, it became the SuperSquirt (though I don't have a book to cite here, working backwards puts its origins here - also, I think they mentioned it by name in the Dragonheart books). In 3rd, it was the SuperSquirt II (Man and Machine). And, obviously, in 4th edition, it's the SuperSquirt III. The Cascade has always (to my knowledge) been the name of the rifle version since it was introduced in 2nd edition (I don't see it in the 1st edition gear list).

Fortunately, it's extremely easy to convert the Cascade over because the weapon has no base damage code to shoehorn into the new system, and the general operating mechanics still exist (DMSO+chem application, weapon ranges, shotgun chokes/spreads, etc).

[Rotbart van Dain...]

GM-Nissan Doberman: Walker Mode, Weapon Mount (external, fixed, remote control), Clearsight 3 and Targeting 3 autosofts
Steel Lynx Combat Drone: Weapon Mount (external, fixed, remote control), Defense 3 and Targeting 3 autosofts

Both drones have turrets, not fixed weapon mounts. (Fixed mounts are pretty useless for patrol drones.)

[Ryu]

Both drones have turrets, not fixed weapon mounts. (Fixed mounts are pretty useless for patrol drones.)

I´d say those drones are primary combat vehicles without secondary functions, so they could actually afford to point towards the enemy. Alltough from the image of the steel lynx, at least flexible flexibility (GAH!) is in order. (And btw., those drones are now officially not including a weapon.) A turret would be nice, but does not fit without over-modification.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

I´d say those drones are primary combat vehicles without secondary functions, so they could actually afford to point towards the enemy.

Not really, as they are ground-based and can't easily turn - see the Flexibility description.
And they were always designed as drones with a turret.

A turret would be nice, but does not fit without over-modification.

Factory-included mods don't count towards the slot max.
So there is no such thing as overmodification for standard mods.

[Ryu]

Cool. In that case the fix is rather easy. Turret - granted.

[martindv]

Is that a helicarrier that all the rigger pods are escaping from in page... 120(?)

I should have brought the book with me.

[Ryu]

I think you mean the pic on pg. 140. No Idea what that is supposed to be. There seems to be some kind of vector-trust propulsion included (on the rigger cocoons); the large blimp? does not remind me of any SR vehicle.