Arsenal Qs, and typos, if you find any Options

[Janus]

Anyone else getting the old 2nd printing Arsenal PDF when trying to download the 3rd printing?

I had experienced same problem a few days ago at BattleCorps.

But it is like the PDF updated. I downloaded it(one with new book cover) just now.

[DMK]

I just downloaded the new printing today from Battlecorps... and it's definitely the new printing. Looks pretty neat... I'm looking forward to reading it.

[Speed Wraith]

Okay, this is driving me crazy and I'm sure I'm just having reading comprehension problems, BUT, how much body does a drone/vehicle need to hold a reinforced weapon mount? I'm assuming that it is exactly the same for the non-reinforced version, but the phrasing in the book has me thrown off a bit:

As a general rule, one weapon mount can be added to a vehicle for every 3 points of Body it has, rounded up. One reinforced weapon mount counts as two normal weapon mounts.

That's really confusing to me and makes me think that you would need a Body of 4+ in order to install a reinforced mount and that you could not have an additional non-reinforced mount along with it, unless that vehicle/drone's body was 7+. Is that correct?

Sorry if this was settled some time ago on another thread, but I'm having terrible luck finding anything either on Dumpshock specifically or just using the Google...

[Stahlseele]

You need Body 6 for one reinforced. Body 9 would mean either 3 normal or one reinforced and one normal.
Body 12 means either 4 normal or 2 reinforced or one reinforced and 2 normal.

[Speed Wraith]

You need Body 6 for one reinforced. Body 9 would mean either 3 normal or one reinforced and one normal.
Body 12 means either 4 normal or 2 reinforced or one reinforced and 2 normal.

Well, you'd need a 4+ though, right? Because it specifically says, "round up" but okay, I don't know why that was confusing me so bad when I was apparently reading it correctly to begin with. Plus that one drone (I can't recall its name, but a Lone Star Rotodrone) that has like a 2 body but a reinforced mount as a standard upgrade...just added to the confusion I guess, but hey, standard upgrades often break the rules.

[Stahlseele]

That means if you devide the vehicles body, you can round up to get to 3.
For example, if you divide and you have 2,3 reinforced, you round up to 3 reinforced.
Well, at least that's how i understand it . . No idea why they had to have that round up in there . .

[Speed Wraith]

That means if you devide the vehicles body, you can round up to get to 3.
For example, if you divide and you have 2,3 reinforced, you round up to 3 reinforced.
Well, at least that's how i understand it . . No idea why they had to have that round up in there . .

I assume that it rounds up for the benefit of Body 1 drones to mount some sort of weapon. I wouldn't allow one in my game on a Body 0 drone (since you can't do that division and because such a drone obviously lacks the size or structure for such a thing) but I could see at least allowing a hold-out on a tiny drone.

[Yerameyahu]

It's clearly intended to be round down, so that Body 1 drones *can't* mount weapons. These are the kinds of errors we have to deal with as SR players. It would kind of be cool if they bothered to make (bring back) really finely-grained weapon/mount sizes, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Speed Wraith]

It's clearly intended to be round down, so that Body 1 drones *can't* mount weapons. These are the kinds of errors we have to deal with as SR players. It would kind of be cool if they bothered to make (bring back) really finely-grained weapon/mount sizes, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Isn't the rule to always round up unless it states otherwise? Besides which, the rule does specifically say to "round up" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) I can see the debate going either way on a Body 1 drone and think that's just one of those places where the GM has to make the call. You want to put a handgun on a Ferret? Sure, no problem. What's that? An Ares Alpha on that Dragonfly? No...

[Yerameyahu]

No, I'm not saying the book doesn't say 'up'. I'm saying that's obviously wrong. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) A previous book (SR4?) said round down.

As I mentioned, the issue is not 'hold-out on a Body 1'. The issue is that weapon mounts have only one (or two) sizes: size 1 is 'up to and including LMG'. :/ SR3 had micro, mini, etc. turrets for this issue.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

You round up, but the weapon mount is a standard modification -> it is not allowed on mini- or microdrones. You can recreate the "mini" weapon mount through the special machinery mod though, it just requires GM approval.

[Yerameyahu]

That's true enough, I totally forgot that in my earlier posts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) I used to know that, too. Embarrassing! Pretend I was talking about Body 2 drones. Some make tons of sense (Ares Sentinel is basically a gun track), while others… bleh.

I still don't see why Body 4 should get twice as many as Body 3; I would really prefer fine-grained weapon mounts again.

[NiL_FisK_Urd]

By fluff a body 4 drone is about the size of a small car, whereas a body 3 drone is as big as a large dog.

[Yerameyahu]

Right, that's *way* bigger, only 2 guns? And then Body 4 to 5? We're not just talking about drones. (Let's not even mention cyborgs, though.) And the Body 2? Much smaller than Body 3. That's my exact point.

[Stahlseele]

Body in Drones is exactly like Body in Metahumans.
An ork is not that much different from a Human and still gets +3 Body.
A dwarf is SMALLER than a Human and gets +1 Body still . .

[CanRay]

That's because dwarves are denser than humans, having muscles like a reptile's. It's not just their skulls that are thicker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Body in Drones is exactly like Body in Metahumans.

This is completely wrong, though. Drones have always used Body in a fundamentally different way from metahumans. Body X drones are each a whole category, similar in size and options. That's the reason the cyborgs are so weird. I'm not saying things *should* be this way, but they definitely are.

Things are somewhat different for non-drone vehicles, but not too much. Body is still related to size for vehicles more than it is for metahumans.

[Stahlseele]

That's because dwarves are denser than humans, having muscles like a reptile's. It's not just their skulls that are thicker. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

So the smaller combat drone has a thicker hide than something non combaty in the same size category and stronger motors/hydraulics to boot to haul the armor around at increased speed . .
While the bigger Transportation-Drone has no need for a thicker hide and needs to save weight to be capable of transporting more of a pay load, thus thinner skin and less body for it's size? O.o
I'd say it fits pretty well . .

This is completely wrong, though. Drones have always used Body in a fundamentally different way from metahumans. Body X drones are each a whole category, similar in size and options. That's the reason the cyborgs are so weird. I'm not saying things *should* be this way, but they definitely are.

Things are somewhat different for non-drone vehicles, but not too much. Body is still related to size for vehicles more than it is for metahumans.

Well, in Metahumans, you have a pretty limited range for models to which to compare the body stat to though . .
You have Dwarves and their Metavariants. Humans and their Metavariant. Elves and their Metavariants. Orks and their Metavariants.
And Trolls and their Metavariants. And there, for the most part, the body/size relaton is, in my eyes, pretty much consistent too.

Meta-Sapients like Horse-People, Yes-Men and Windlings seem to adhere to it pretty much as well, if i ain't misremembering.

I'd guess that the body stat in drones has more to do with their weigh from their robuster materials than their size . .
More weight, more stability, more guns that can be fitted!

[Yerameyahu]

That's not the question though. You said that drones *don't* have a strong correlation of Body to size; they do. They're basically the only thing that does, or at least their is by far the strongest. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) That's why there's a section in the book that says, 'Body X drones are Y big', and why they're grouped into micro, mini, small, medium, and large drones in all the tables.