Confused on: Bunraku, One word, multiple meanings? Options

[DocTaotsu]

...you also don't necessarily think of them as sad. But that's a point too.

I didn't want to touch on it but I'm glad that I've had a similar experience with homeless people. They're not homeless because their miserable people, they're homeless because the mainstream lifestyle makes them miserable. That's a gross generalization and ignores the nuanced reasons for homelessness but that's my personal experience.

[krakjen]

I expect most prostitutes could expect to recoup losses somewhere in between 6 and 24 days of good work. Of course, I'm sure they themselves get charged much more for the cost of the equipment. Can't have them buying their freedom, now can we?

Yeah, but for Bunraku meat puppets how could they tell?

They are being shunt off and replaced by a personafix.
Their owners can make them work for years before even once deactivating the p-fix.
They can't complain, they can't try to revolt or escape. They are not even there.

Even a voluntary subject could wake up, many years after what should have last only a few hour/days, the implants removed, her body devastated, and thrown into the street with a ridiculous little compensation (if any)...
That, of course, if they don't become some kind of soylent green to feed the other, still active, employee.
Delicious dystopia...

Edit: Damn DocTaotsu wrote faster than me

[JonathanC]

But, then there are some really weird things one could do with AR, such as having your partner rigged, so you can experience having intercourse with yourself.

Have you seen Strange Days?

[DocTaotsu]

I'm developing this creepy mental image of bunraku parlor "dorms" that look more like a vehicle maintenance yard. Lines and lines of meat puppets hung from rafter waiting inspection, cleaning, and "maintenance". Long tubes flow into their various orifices feeding them and pushing healing nanotech through their veins to keep them running. A disinterested tech threads his way between them, scratching his balls and wondering when the next time he'll get to enjoy one "on the house".

[JonathanC]

I expect most prostitutes could expect to recoup losses somewhere in between 6 and 24 days of good work. Of course, I'm sure they themselves get charged much more for the cost of the equipment. Can't have them buying their freedom, now can we?

If they're cybered up as puppet dolls, what makes you think they're getting paid at all?

[krakjen]

I'm developing this creepy mental image of bunraku parlor "dorms" that look more like a vehicle maintenance yard. Lines and lines of meat puppets hung from rafter waiting inspection, cleaning, and "maintenance". Long tubes flow into their various orifices feeding them and pushing healing nanotech through their veins to keep them running. A disinterested tech threads his way between them, scratching his balls and wondering when the next time he'll get to enjoy one "on the house".

They also don't need bathrooms and such.
Some good ol' hose cleaning and they are good to go...
The food would be the most tasteless cheaper soyfood available.
In fact the most costly would be the makeup/clothes (the marketing aspect)

Is a sleep regulator included in the Bunraku pack? It would greatly improves productivity...
Edit: Forget it. it's too expensive...

[JonathanC]

I'm developing this creepy mental image of bunraku parlor "dorms" that look more like a vehicle maintenance yard. Lines and lines of meat puppets hung from rafter waiting inspection, cleaning, and "maintenance". Long tubes flow into their various orifices feeding them and pushing healing nanotech through their veins to keep them running. A disinterested tech threads his way between them, scratching his balls and wondering when the next time he'll get to enjoy one "on the house".

Yeah, that seems to be where people in this thread are pushing the idea. But to me, this sounds like a terribly expensive, difficult to transport operation. Nanotech costs money, cyberware costs money, facilities, houses, props, clothing, all of it costs money. Not enough to keep it from being profitable, but enough that you wouldn't want to have to pay to move it around to stay ahead of the cops and/or other syndicates. This is why I was saying earlier that kidnapping random people for this doesn't make that much sense, as disappearing teenagers are sure to pique at least *some* interest. Bunraku makes perfect sense to me as a sordid, sleazy job that desperate people would go into because hey, it sounds better than regular prostitution where you actually have to remember boning that ugly S.O.B. But otherwise? Not so much.

[Kanada Ten]

Have you seen Strange Days?

I rented it once, but didn't get around to watching it.

[mfb]

I'm developing this creepy mental image of bunraku parlor "dorms" that look more like a vehicle maintenance yard. Lines and lines of meat puppets hung from rafter waiting inspection, cleaning, and "maintenance". Long tubes flow into their various orifices feeding them and pushing healing nanotech through their veins to keep them running. A disinterested tech threads his way between them, scratching his balls and wondering when the next time he'll get to enjoy one "on the house".

the funny part is, that's actually more humane than the alternative--the alternative being a dirty flophouse where the girls live in filth and disease, receiving no medical treatment, dying from disease without ever waking up, having their cyber ripped out of their corpses and implanted into the next girl in line.

[krakjen]

Yeah, I can see why some people could see the Bunraku as a creepy part of Shadowrun...

[Rasumichin]

Theoretically, the "dolls" wouldn't have to age out of the industry, given the possibilities of genetic anti-aging threatment available.
The problem is, the butchery method brought up here is so much cheaper.
In fact, the worst pimps might not even take that much hassle.
Why conduct amateur surgery to remove those wires?
Headshot, organlegging, ghoul chow.
The second part of that alone would make up for the implant's cost, especially if those implants are...recycled.
There's no business like show business.

Of course, there's also the possibility of people taking up a normal loan, going to a licensed bodyshop and working it of as a prostitute at a legal establishment (heck, there's already girls paying for their college education by prostituting themselves).

If beauty, health, strenght and eternal youth are really just a matter of cost, it's not hard to imagine to what means some people will go to achieve them.

Damn, i just found out transhumanism sucks.

[DocTaotsu]

Well these are generalizations. I think if you go to some Yak benraku parlor that's been in business since they still called them buymedrinkme girls, you probably have something like that running in the background. You're also still paying 100 nuyen for a handjob and thousands for an evening. I'm sure those are all very industrialized and sterile.

But you're right, your run of the mill "Mom and Pop", 50 yen an hour parlor probably doesn't have any of those niceties. Just girls with some poorly written skilsofts and sketchy privacy cut out chips.

I also don't ascribe to the whole "They prey on the homeless!". I'm sure they have a great AR pitch that they give to poor burnouts about how wonderful it is to work at a parlor. They tell them that they get to keep the cosmetics after they leave and that cyber is all very clean. They also tell them that after their 5 year term of service they'll have FABULOUS amounts of money saved up (save for the fine print). And hey! We'll even put this cutout chip in you so you don't even have to remember any of it! Isn't that swell!

I'm sure there is a wide gamut of possibilities here, with all sorts of different business models and levels of in humaneness. My thought though, is that the big name parlors that publicly advertise and exist in Yak enclaves are probably nightmare machines. And that the other end of the spectrum is the flophouse crackwhore route.

[DocTaotsu]

Oh no my friend! Transhumanism is great. Humanity has and will probably always suck. In fact that's the big draw of transhumanism is that we might get to a place is that is different, and not more so.

[nezumi]

If they're cybered up as puppet dolls, what makes you think they're getting paid at all?

I didn't say "paid". I said recoup costs. Whose costs do you think I'm talking about?

[DocTaotsu]

Oh, good point. Sorry!

[Rasumichin]

Oh no my friend! Transhumanism is great. Humanity has and will probably always suck. In fact that's the big draw of transhumanism is that we might get to a place is that is different, and not more so.

The possibilities are incredible, certainly.
I'm just afraid that capitalism, or, more general, the very basic human tendency towards fear and greed, steps in and ruins it all, as usual.


As far as the deal for the homeless (or SINless in general) is concerned...how much pay would you have to offer to somebody for, say, five years of his or her life?
If you live in a place like Puyallup and have no perspective to compete with the corp folks and get out of this mess anyway?

[DocTaotsu]

20 grand? if we assume these people are living in a situation where they're living off a hundred yen a month, that would seem like a ridiculous amount of money. Plus most of them are probably thinking "Will I be alive in 5 years if I don't do this?". Another sales pitch that probably works concerns their children.
"Look, come work for us for 10 years, we'll only pay you half of what you normally would get but we'll enroll your kid at the local Renraku enclave school. They'll get room, board, and all that. Plus they have a real shot at a job come graduation time. If not they'll at least have learned a trade. It's a great deal anyway you look at it, trust me sweetie, your gonna be a star!"

I tend to think that corps probably even honor these agreements. What do they lose for gaining a meat puppet and a couple of lifetime wage slaves?

I think the bigger draw would be for lifer plans that include an incredible (for a squatter) retirement plan. Hell, sign away some of your children for a monthly stipend, who's going to stop you? You've probably been begging child services to take your kids away.

[Kanada Ten]

As far as the deal for the homeless (or SINless in general) is concerned...how much pay would you have to offer to somebody for, say, five years of his or her life? If you live in a place like Puyallup and have no perspective to compete with the corp folks and get out of this mess anyway?

There would always be more willing to say "yes" than the maket demands, but the sex trade likes to buy children for a few reasons: less diseases, longer usability, easier indoctrination, and generally cheaper to maintain. As the vast majority of puppets are not wired, just controlled through trodes and wireless personafix-knowsoft technology, purchasing children for "a better life" also endears you to a community, in that odd fashion, while you can later add ware to more promising talent.

[DocTaotsu]

But what do you do with the kids until their old enough to have wires installed surely you don't...

*abject horror*

I think the Faceless might be offering my Runners some new work next session. The uplifted dolphins can wait.

[mfb]

well of course they use children in the sex industry. partly because much of the world doesn't buy into the crazy concept that humans should only be counted as adults at 18, and partly because the rest of the world does buy into it--but only when it suits them.

[nezumi]

As far as the deal for the homeless (or SINless in general) is concerned...how much pay would you have to offer to somebody for, say, five years of his or her life?

Why? How much is the competition offering?

Assuming we're talking about someone old enough to have children above the age of say 8, the Yaks can offer safety, good food, job and respect. Little Billy or Suzie won't be getting in street brawls with the other neighborhood kids, scrapping it out for nicer barrels to burn trash fires in. They'll be productive members of society with the Yaks, doing valuable services like drug-running, killing mafiosas and running brothels. That alone would be enough for some parents. But as has been mentioned, there's generally not a lot of reason to go after people who have already had their bodies all stretched out having kids. I won't even go into the optimal age given market pressures, but suffice to say, hiring them at 18 is denying some major profit-possibilities, and if you get them too young to be marketable you have them work doing other menial tasks until they become marketable.

I generally set an artificial limit of 12, just for my own mental wellbeing, but that's not a very realistic limit at all. I would not be surprised if the Yaks have their fingers in a couple orphanages, honestly.

[Kanada Ten]

But what do you do with the kids until their old enough to have wires installed surely you don't...

"Are there no prisons? Are there no whorehouses?"

[DocTaotsu]

Eh?

[martindv]

Yeah, that seems to be where people in this thread are pushing the idea. But to me, this sounds like a terribly expensive, difficult to transport operation. Nanotech costs money, cyberware costs money, facilities, houses, props, clothing, all of it costs money. Not enough to keep it from being profitable, but enough that you wouldn't want to have to pay to move it around to stay ahead of the cops and/or other syndicates. This is why I was saying earlier that kidnapping random people for this doesn't make that much sense, as disappearing teenagers are sure to pique at least *some* interest.

Hardly. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children FAQ writes this:

How many missing children are there?

The U.S. Department of Justice reports:

* 797,500 children (younger than 18) were reported missing in a one-year period of time studied resulting in an average of 2,185 children being reported missing each day.
* 203,900 children were the victims of family abductions.
* 58,200 children were the victims of non-family abductions.
* 115 children were the victims of �€œstereotypical�€� kidnapping. (These crimes involve someone the child does not know or someone of slight acquaintance, who holds the child overnight, transports the child 50 miles or more, kills the child, demands ransom, or intends to keep the child permanently.

[Andrea J. Sedlak, David Finkelhor, Heather Hammer, and Dana J. Schultz. U.S. Department of Justice. "National Estimates of Missing Children: An Overview" in National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Thrownaway Children. Washington, DC: Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention, Office of Justice Programs, U.S. Department of Justice, October 2002, page 5.]

That's today. In a U.S. that is insanely safe to the point of utopian compared to the SR world. And yet no one cares, no one even notices, unless it's an attractive blonde, teenage white girl. Then the world comes to a halt to exploit the tragedy for all it's worth.

But in SR, where gangs have access to rocket launchers and rule the streets after dark, and where go-gangs have regularly taken on the Metroplex Guard and always win, no one cares.

No one.

Because what difference does it make? In SR, if you disappear. You disappear.

[mfb]

more to the point, nobody cares unless it's an attractive, blonde, teenage white girl from the US.