Ghoul Carriers?, Being Typhoid Mary Options

[Serial_Peacemake...]

Now I know the rules are not out for this, but in older editions if I remember correctly you were able to be infected with Ghoulism, and be non-symptomatic but contagious correct?

[Kanada Ten]

I don't recall any non-symptomatic cases, specifically, though some of the latter generation ghouls had reduced symptoms - even allowing one (known individual) to attend college and live in a dorm room, undetected (and without infecting anyone, IIRC).

There could be spells and talent magic talents which could also suppress expression, or in cases of living within mana dead zones.

[hyzmarca]

SR3 comp.

When exposed to the disease, you make a Body test vs (Carrier's Essence). If you get any successes, then your immune system successfully suppresses the disease, preventing transformation. However, you may still be a carrier of the disease (essentially gaining the Pestilence Power) at GM discretion. Such carriers are actual more contageous than normal ghouls, since they don't lost the essence point that is lose during transformation.

[Snow_Fox]

You found this faster than I could. ut it does raise soem ideas. Evil ideas. an accidental spreader lost in the sprawl, someone willingly passing it (As the histoircal Typhoid Mary was) or some sort of ghoul queen-ooo.

[Daddy's Litt...]

Have I ever told you, you can really creep me out. We are so talking before I let you tell Rei any bed time stories.

To think of the topic though. Imagine a joy girl who does not know she is a carrier. A love bite here or there and an incubation period and she leaves a trail on fresh infectees behind her.

[Stahlseele]

yep, i've had simmilar ideas before this . . but now i somehow wanna build that O.o

[Snow_Fox]

Have I ever told you, you can really creep me out. We are so talking before I let you tell Rei any bed time stories.

To think of the topic though. Imagine a joy girl who does not know she is a carrier. A love bite here or there and an incubation period and she leaves a trail on fresh infectees behind her.

Ok you come up with that and you're worried about me. I'm such a good influence on you.

[Malicant]

This is exactly the reason why making Ghouls into a disease was a very bad idea. Rules wise it was to contagious, but fluff wise there are no Ghoul epidemics. The setting handles them still like they goblinze. Which they will forever in my withered heart (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

[djinni]

This is exactly the reason why making Ghouls into a disease was a very bad idea. Rules wise it was to contagious, but fluff wise there are no Ghoul epidemics. The setting handles them still like they goblinze. Which they will forever in my withered heart (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

in previously unnamed editions...the average body was 3 the TN# to not get infected was 5 (1:3 chance). so rules wise yes there are no epidemics...on teh flip side you could always note that ghouls are feral/underground and rarely left someone alive to be turned.

but what really caught my attention was that posters are upset about their contagious effect instead of the "magical" way all atrificial light gets extinguished around them?

[Siege]

For even more giggles - mutant strains of ghouls.

-Siege

Edit: And splash rules for accidental infections...

[Rajaat99]

I can't believe I never thought of that before. Sadly, I've always used ghouls as "monsters". A Joygirl carrying the strain and passing it without thinking. Brilliant!

[Mercer]

This is exactly the reason why making Ghouls into a disease was a very bad idea. Rules wise it was to contagious, but fluff wise there are no Ghoul epidemics. The setting handles them still like they goblinze. Which they will forever in my withered heart (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

It's a fair point that you make, Malicant. If exposure to the Krieger variant of the HMHVV means that 2 out of 3 "average" humans will be infected, ghoul infections would be a lot more common. I think this a case of a game designer wanting to make something a threat for the pc's (which have above-average BOD stats) and didn't really think how that would impact the established game world.

Its up to the GM to fix it, whether by setting a criteria for what constitutes exposure (only bite wounds, not claws, not just a single bite but extended gnawing), or making one strain of Krieger especially virulent and making most ghouls non-infectious. (I haven't really looked at ghouls in SR4, but I know they don't get Infection or Essence Drain, so its not entirely clear to me how they would infect anyone.) Or just ignoring it altogether.

One of my favorite NPCs was called Living Dead Girl, or LDG, or Teresa. Her gimmick was she was the only one in her family to not turn into a ghoul. This made her a valuable person in certain circles, particularly if you needed meat disposed of. But there was something neat about the image of a fairly normal girl who would occasionally go visit her family that lived in a half-destroyed camper rattily assembled in a sewer tunnel. It was kind of like the family in Texas Chainsaw Massacre, except not that creepy.

Personally, I like using a lot of different types of ghouls. Ravening, almost mindless ghouls. Intelligent rotters. Fast ghouls. Slow ghouls. Ghouls who can almost pass, ghouls who can pass. I need them to fill a lot of roles. So I like to have variant strains and the amount of time infected as well as the amount of food they get and the conditions they live in to all have an affect on their condition. Things that are difficult to replicate under laboratory conditions.

[Siege]

And if you plan on using ghouls like zombies, mix it up just a tad - the same rendition of easily butchered critter loses it's fear factor to million-nuyen samurai.

Starting throwing in random powers, mutations and whatnot and it's a whole new kettle of slobber.

-Siege

[Grinder]

Can Shedim inhabit the bodies of dead ghouls? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Daddy's Litt...]

I think the high TN is not too big a problem, unless the ghouls try to recruit. Most people who they grab end up as dinner before they can turn. Runners, being armed and armored are more likely to survive an attack than the wino under a bridge.

[nezumi]

There are no (or few) ghoul epidemics because the disease has a very long incubation time, during which it is largely non-contagious, is treated relatively easily during the early stages with medication, and treated even more easily in the later stages through lead injections. Presumably it is relatively easily detected with simple medical treatment as well.

In other words, the only place it'll be an epidemic is with those who don't get even basic medical care, and the government doesn't recognize or care for. As long as there are no groups like that around, you should be alright.

[bibliophile20]

Can Shedim inhabit the bodies of dead ghouls? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Why wouldn't they be able to?

[Grinder]

It was more like a rhetoric question. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

So you can have twice the zombie fun: first the PCs have to make their way through hordes of various ghouls, only to discover that the killed ghouls rise from their graves again, possessed by Shedims! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Siege]

There are no (or few) ghoul epidemics because the disease has a very long incubation time, during which it is largely non-contagious, is treated relatively easily during the early stages with medication, and treated even more easily in the later stages through lead injections. Presumably it is relatively easily detected with simple medical treatment as well.

In other words, the only place it'll be an epidemic is with those who don't get even basic medical care, and the government doesn't recognize or care for. As long as there are no groups like that around, you should be alright.

You mean like the SINless winos in the Barrens?

Although I suppose it largely depends on a GM's interpretation of social realities in SR.

-Siege

[nezumi]

You mean like the SINless winos in the Barrens?

A bunch of SINless folk doesn't count as an epidemic, at least not as far as UCAS Center for Disease Control is concerned.

[Malicant]

A bunch of SINless folk doesn't count as an epidemic, at least not as far as UCAS Center for Disease Control is concerned.

A bunch meanig most of Puyallup and Redmond in Seattle alone. Yes, I think if Ghouls were that contagious as described in SR3, which was weak, but still very easily spread, than the Barrens of Seattle at least would stop being SINles. They would be people-less. Also, we have one African state made of Ghouls. A state, on a continent that has a pretty gimped social and medical system. Ghouls could run the place pretty easily, infecting those they need to fight and sparing those they herd for food. Which they don't do because they are nice or afraid of retaliation, I guess. Or they are beyond wisdom asuming if everyone is turned Ghoul they would be at square one with everyone making they own Ghoulparadise. Right. That must be it.

So, Ghouls as infectious disease is rather bad for my syspension of disbelief. Luckily, pestilence power is gone so thats one problem less.

[nezumi]

When there's a disease that begins showing symptoms before it becomes contagious, it becomes much easier to control, especially when you have groups of people who don't mind killing large portions of the population in order to control it. And certainly, mercilessly killing neighborhoods of SINless folk where a few ghouls are reported fits in fine with the dystopian setting.

[Malicant]

When there's a disease that begins showing symptoms before it becomes contagious, it becomes much easier to control, especially when you have groups of people who don't mind killing large portions of the population in order to control it. And certainly, mercilessly killing neighborhoods of SINless folk where a few ghouls are reported fits in fine with the dystopian setting.

Not really, no. That's not dystopian. That's just slaughter.
Governments can't afford the publicity and corporations have nothing to gain from doing so. The govs would quarantine the area, the corps ignore it.

[Grinder]

One of 'em (either government or a corp) could either hire or manipulate a terrorist group to launch a full blown attack on an infected neighbourhood.

[Moon-Hawk]

Donate food to the poor neighborhood laced with a chemical that is deadly to ghouls, but will only make the humans sick. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif)