[X] My Assistant

[Critias]

Ok, I just had a chat with some friends of mine (while watching "Hot Rod" - great movie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) and none of us could come up with a movie character that is portrayed as a super-human close combat fighter.

I can think of a couple, like Jet Li in The One or any of a couple characters from the Matrix franchise. I don't bring it up to continue an argument or anything zany like that, but just because when I read your post a few super-human close combat fighters from movies popped right into my head.

[hyzmarca]

Kwai Chang Cane was always portrayed as a superhuman close combat fighter. He simply wasn't portrayed by a superhuman close combat fighter.

[Grinder]

I can think of a couple, like Jet Li in The One or any of a couple characters from the Matrix franchise. I don't bring it up to continue an argument or anything zany like that, but just because when I read your post a few super-human close combat fighters from movies popped right into my head.

Our search-fu had been weak yesterday, it seems. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[TheOneRonin]

Ok, I just had a chat with some friends of mine (while watching "Hot Rod" - great movie (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ) and none of us could come up with a movie character that is portrayed as a super-human close combat fighter.
That said, I stand corrected (again) and have to admit that Jason Bourne is probably a fucking good combatant, so let's continue and build him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Right! Building him is the point of this post, right?

Okay, so he displays roughly equal skill with unarmed, blades, and clubs. We could go with Close Combat Group (6), or maybe split them up so we can have specializations.

If I were to give him specializations, I'd probably do something like this:

Unarmed Combat (Disarming): 6 (+2) or 5 (+2)
Blades (Knives): 5 (+2)
Clubs (Subdual): 5 (+2)

Those numbers are good enough to where it's going to be extremely rare to find someone who can beat him in a one on one fight, and he should be able to succeed against groups of less skilled opponents.

What about his other skills?

When it comes to shooting people, I would say Firearms Group (4). Bourne is a good shot, but I just don't see him shooting at the level of an SAS Operator. An Assassin doesn't need to be Delta-trained when it comes to shooting. Critias, did you read anything in the novels that would disagree with that assessment?

[bluedragon7]

For Firearms i would say he is not nearly as proficient as in close combat, Firearms do not seem to be his weapon of choice, he can operate them but is not a crack shot (exept maybe that one perfect shot while falling down a stairwell, but i would call this a good use of Edge (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )
so i am inclined to set it at 3-4, no specialisation

I think perception, knowledge and improvisation are the key to his success

So his highest skill should be perception (See the Waterloo-Station Scene in the last film or "I can tell you the license plate numbers of all six cars outside. I can tell you that our waitress is left-handed and the guy sitting up at the counter weighs two hundred fifteen pounds and knows how to handle himself. I know the best place to look for a gun is the cab of the gray truck outside,..." )

Give hime some usefull knowledgeskills like Security Procedures

Do not play him if you can't come up with a good plan B, not involving violence, in a matter of seconds. <-This is important, if you can play a pro he will look good even if he has low values and if you can't, he will look stupid, no matter how good his values are.

[toturi]

I think perception, knowledge and improvisation are the key to his success

So his highest skill should be perception (See the Waterloo-Station Scene in the last film or "I can tell you the license plate numbers of all six cars outside. I can tell you that our waitress is left-handed and the guy sitting up at the counter weighs two hundred fifteen pounds and knows how to handle himself. I know the best place to look for a gun is the cab of the gray truck outside,..." )

Give hime some usefull knowledgeskills like Security Procedures

Do not play him if you can't come up with a good plan B, not involving violence, in a matter of seconds. <-This is important, if you can play a pro he will look good even if he has low values and if you can't, he will look stupid, no matter how good his values are.

While I do agree that he should be able to hit high Thresholds for Perception fairly regularly, I think a high Stealth group can be used in place of Perception. You can use the Knowledge skills like Security Procedures and Security Design to minimise the need to improvise, the PC should not be punished for the player's ineptitude, similar to a player should not need to be able to win a Olympic gold medal in shooting before he can play a world class shooter. His stats should provide a game mechanical way of getting out of the situation, use the PC's skills to come up with a plan, let the player decide whether he wants to follow through the plan.

[Earlydawn]

Yeah, Toturi raises an excellent point. I always like Bourne was able to make it through a lot of the situations that he did, because he understood the principles and strategies that the agencies would use to try and apprehend him. He's an expert at avoiding them, and probably knows their weaknesses better then their architects.

[bluedragon7]

I do strongly agree with you in the skills being the deciding factor of success, but it is no fun to play something that does not work out. If i want to play a Jason Bourne but cant get that image across, if the others dont believe him to be that super duper agent, i am disappointed. And no extraordinary skills helps with that and if i only achieve my goals by having the gamemaster tell me "you come up with this plan,..." its no fun for me (and others)

If you want to play a "secret agent", no problem, everyone expects something different, but if you say "i am playing a Jason Bourne" (or whaterver popular Character you take as rolemodel) everyone has seen the movie und expects your JB to feel as cool as in the movie.

I dont think the stealth group can replace perception, it rather helps, especially infiltration and shadowing are definetly required for a Jason Bourne.

edit:
@earlydawn, thats why i insited on the right mixture of knowledgeskills. The knowledge how to behave in certain situations is soo deeply trained, that even amnesia does not stop him from just doing the right thing necessary

[Critias]

Yeah, he's definately not a top-notch shooter. Not bad mind you (he did get into Treadstone from being a combat infantryman/special ops soldier type), but I'd say a solid 3-4 would be enough. Assassinating someone isn't all about being able to shoot them from a hundred yards away with a handgun, it's about getting close enough that handgun is a lethal surprise, shooting them in the top of the head while they're sleeping (Mombosi), etc, etc. With aim actions and a good Stealth skill, you don't even need to be all that great with a sniper rifle to make a reliable kill shot. So, yeah. 3-4 with the skill group seems fine.

[TheOneRonin]

While I do agree that he should be able to hit high Thresholds for Perception fairly regularly, I think a high Stealth group can be used in place of Perception. You can use the Knowledge skills like Security Procedures and Security Design to minimise the need to improvise, the PC should not be punished for the player's ineptitude, similar to a player should not need to be able to win a Olympic gold medal in shooting before he can play a world class shooter. His stats should provide a game mechanical way of getting out of the situation, use the PC's skills to come up with a plan, let the player decide whether he wants to follow through the plan.

Just to make sure everyone understands what I'm getting at with this thread...I'm not trying to develop a playable Jason Bourne for SR4. In many ways, Bourne's character just doesn't work in a traditional Shadowrun game. He is very much a generalist, and most of his skills work around him being alone. Not to mention that most of what makes Bourne "Bourne" are things that SR4 rules can't really mechanically account for. Knowledge skills and high-rank Active skills will account for some of it, but Bourne's core is being able to think on his feet and make the right decisions given all the circumstances of whatever the situation is. Since, in SR, those decisions are the purview of the player, it would require the player to have near the decision making capabilities of Jason Bourne.

That being said, this thread isn't an attempt to make a playable character. This is an attempt to hash out what "Jason Bourne" would look like, stat-wise, in 2070s Shadowrun. Since we can only represent him with attributes, qualities, skills, and implants, those are the things I'd like to focus on. The intangible aspects of his character can be skipped since SR4 has no mechanical way to represent them.

Incidentally, the representation of Bourne that I have been working on has Perception AND Stealth at relatively high levels. His environmental awareness is more accurately represented in the novels...especially since they get into his head and reveal his thoughts.

[bluedragon7]

Statswise just give him a knowledgeskill called "quickthinking" to represent his ability to do so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I would see him not as sneaky ninja type, so stealth group should not max out, but rather split it up quite early: disguise and palming are rather low, infiltration and shadowing higher.

If you dont want to make a copy but just let yourself be inspired by him, he can be a playable character. In Ultimatum he required Nickys help with Hacking, he also leaves enough room in a potential runnerteam for a dedicated longrange fighter (including heavier Weapons), a mage and a real face (JB ist not that outgoingand prefers to keep low profile)

[martindv]

Statswise just give him a knowledgeskill called "quickthinking" to represent his ability to do so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Or you could just give him 6s in Logic and Intuition, with Exceptional Attribute for Intuition.

I'll never really understand why they split up Intelligence.

I can think of a couple, like Jet Li in The One

Ha! What's the reach modifier for a police motorcycle?