 Arsenal Wtfs, Or: What did you find REALLY weird? |
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  Feb 2 2008, 09:54 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 2-August 06 Member No.: 9,006  |
OK, I just got the PDF for Arsenal today, and was going through it, and, I admit, there is alot of absolutely cool stuff in there. However, there are also somethings that I just looked at, looked at for a long moment, and went "WTF?!"
The one that sticks out in my head: The FLYING gun that shoots people combo! Page 152: Piloting Upgrade+ Flight Propulsion. I am sorry, but who cares that its 20K to make the thing fly, and 3 K to make a weapon have a basic Pilot rating of 3...it is a FLYING GUN! WTF?! The "I can't believe they put that in there!" thing is: Pimped Ride, p 141. Seriously! Who would WANT people to recognize their vehicle?(though the idea, suddenly, of the old movie, Zorro, the Gay Blade does come to mind...) And a "I can't believe they never had this before:" Interior Cameras, p 138. Admittedly, I always assumed that sensor included these, and that was part of the Rigger Adaptation in the old rules(After all..why else would RA have taken up so much space in vehicles that have autopilots, anyway?) This post has been edited by Redjack: Feb 2 2008, 08:55 PM
Reason for edit: Add sr4 icon
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Feb 2 2008, 10:50 AM
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#2
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
I think some guidelines on how to make your car flash, will be useful to some GM's, though it's all rather generic. The thing I find dubious is that they called it "pimped out ride." Is MTV still going? Using modern slang is a good way to make your product become dated fast. Related to that, I have stronger feelings on the fluff about transport and petrol. Shadowrun always gets adjusted to reflect with modern day concerns. In this case it's taken too far to the detriment of the setting. I don't see why, in an age where the world population has been reduced through war and disease, where increasing numbers of people actually live within the corporation they work for and where those that do not are increasingly destitute of jobs, let alone transport, where an automated traffic guiding system can re-route traffic, prevent slow-downs and accidents, where full virtual reality enables people to hold meetings, attend conferences, put in a days work without ever leaving home, in a world where all of this is the case, why it should be that traffic is worse than ever. The second issue is the rising price of petrol which is driven home by the fluff. There are many reasons why this seems implausible to me as a serious issue in the Shadowrun setting. Not the least of which the availability of fusion power in cannon and the common examples of absolutely incredible power-storage in cannon (all those flying drones and cyberlimbs spring to mind). 50% solar efficiency, massively depopulated areas that can be used for biofuels, increased urbanisation. And quite probably the expiration of petrol as a primary power-source by 2070 anyway. Shadowrun was partly formed from the Cyberpunk genre which played on people's fears of technology. But my generation isn't scared of technology - we think it's cool and we're used to it and most importantly we see it opening the doors to wonderful new opportunities and ways of living. The over-car'ed, petrol-gobbling future they're trying to outline in Arsenal just doesn't really fit our expectations of what cannon 2070's technology means. |
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Feb 2 2008, 10:57 AM
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#3
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
The once german-only abomination called Hi-C rounds - and their implications.
Given the technlevel of SR, there was no reason to even assume that conventional ammunition still is made from real and expensive metal. Oh, and the Break Waepon Maneuver - see Mythbusters. |
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Feb 2 2008, 11:36 AM
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#4
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I have heard this a couple of times lately, and am kind of surprised by it. As far as I know, throughout Shadowrun's history, there has been no actual mention of the overall Sixth World population. There has been hints that the population is similar to today, even with VITAS and wars, because of natural population growth keeping it (or in some cases, bringing it back) level. Do you have figures that would dispute this? |
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Feb 2 2008, 11:43 AM
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#5
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Not that I can put my finger on. I'm pretty sure I picked up reduction in world population from something cannon, but I can't substantiate it at the moment if you want evidence. I think a lot of GM's have this in the back of their minds though so applying this point will vary on an individual basis. The numerous other points remain either way, however. |
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Feb 2 2008, 01:05 PM
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#6
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Well having a quick look through Shadows of Europe since it's the closest book and the four or five countries I picked at random the population figures from the At A Glance information boxes petty much match current population figures five or take a couple million people either way. But of course that's just Europe, the books mention that less developed areas got hit much worse. Although that would probably be balanced out by faster population growth afterwards so it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. At least for Shadows of Europe I know that in the early stages of planning, I can't speak for any decisions after the very early stages though, Peter et al. pretty much decided with VITAS knocking off 35% of the worlds population plus all the other fun stuff that happened population sizes for Europe would be similar to today's after population growth in the following years to 2060. |
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Feb 2 2008, 01:44 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 772 Joined: 12-December 07 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 14,589 |
And what's up with Carrolmeleg sucking beyond the telling of it? It's supposed to be this super secret, ancient martial art that only the most bad ass of Tir Ghosts know and it is quiet possibly the worst martial art in the book. Plus it is completely counter intuitive to the third edition description of the art.
I can see the flying gun, though. It's no different than a drone. |
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Feb 2 2008, 01:59 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 271 Joined: 18-April 06 Member No.: 8,481 |
That's why it's a game and not a prediction. That's why magic and trolls and orks and elves and dwarfs and dragons and unnameable horrors appear in like... 15 years from now? Shadowrun is creating a fictional universe more than it is trying to accurately depict technology in 60+ years from now. And Shadowrun is a dystopian game. If we eliminate dependence on fossil fuels, solve our gridlock, and make sure everyone can afford cheap, clean, unlimited energy... well that's just not very dystopian, is it? They shouldn't have to build the game around our "fears." I think it's perfectly reasonable for them to posit an alternate reality that doesn't neccessarily have much to do with modern day. It's true that it's less plausible if the technology 60 years from now is supposed to be worse than the technology today. But SR's storyline didn't start today, it started in an alternate past timeline where all the sunny happy envirotech that we're working on right now never came into being, probably because greedy corporations were successful at suppressing everyone's concerns about pollution. |
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Feb 2 2008, 10:17 PM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
i assume traffic would be as bad or worse because all of a sudden governments can no longer tax huge portions of the people who use their infrastructure. and if they cut back on areas like military too far, then they completely lose any pretence of autonomy from the megas. so where do they cut back? i would think roads would be one of those places.
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Feb 2 2008, 10:17 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,755 Joined: 5-September 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 9,313 |
QUOTE (Cardul @ Feb 2 2008, 04:54 AM)  OK, I just got the PDF for Arsenal today, and was going through it, and, I admit, there is alot of absolutely cool stuff in there. However, there are also somethings that I just looked at, looked at for a long moment, and went "WTF?!" The one that sticks out in my head: The FLYING gun that shoots people combo! Page 152: Piloting Upgrade+ Flight Propulsion. I am sorry, but who cares that its 20K to make the thing fly, and 3 K to make a weapon have a basic Pilot rating of 3...it is a FLYING GUN! WTF?! The "I can't believe they put that in there!" thing is: Pimped Ride, p 141. Seriously! Who would WANT people to recognize their vehicle?(though the idea, suddenly, of the old movie, Zorro, the Gay Blade does come to mind...) And a "I can't believe they never had this before:" Interior Cameras, p 138. Admittedly, I always assumed that sensor included these, and that was part of the Rigger Adaptation in the old rules(After all..why else would RA have taken up so much space in vehicles that have autopilots, anyway?) I know at least one of my players who will pimp his ride without question. Run games that incorporated downtime and a life beyond the shadows, including some souped up rides to impress the ladies. Flying Gun? Is'nt that a drone? |
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Feb 2 2008, 10:32 PM
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#11
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
The flying gun is flaming pile of crap. You know what I'll do when my character drops his gun and needs to keep returning fire? He'll pull out another gun. And if it's flying around shooting people? I'll order my real combat to drone kill it. With the 20k I saved I should be able to own at least three of them. Or maybe just a couple LEBD-1s with Chameleon coatings...
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Feb 2 2008, 10:59 PM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,532 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 769 |
We ended up with a pimped ride during our HK campaign. Neon zodiac symbols flashing in nanite paint, spinning rims, a hot tub, the whole 9 yards. Never used it as a primary running vehicle (we had an armoured Mercedes for that) but it did have it's uses. It belonged to our somewhat eccentric Ork sam who used it as a personal toy. He called it the Celestial Harmony Wagon. We'd sometimes take it to meets where appearances mattered.
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Feb 2 2008, 11:06 PM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I've seen, and even used that type of thing quite a bit in Shadowrun (and not necessarily just for vehicles). Not everything has to be about actual on-the-job gear. There is life in the Sixth World outside of the shadowrun.
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Feb 2 2008, 11:16 PM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
QUOTE (Fortune @ Feb 2 2008, 06:06 PM) I've seen, and even used that type of thing quite a bit in Shadowrun (and not necessarily just for vehicles). Not everything has to be about actual on-the-job gear. There is life in the Sixth World outside of the shadowrun. LIES! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Feb 3 2008, 12:44 AM
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#15
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
QUOTE (Fortune @ Feb 3 2008, 12:06 AM) There is life in the Sixth World outside of the shadowrun. Like there is life outside of dumpshock.com for you? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Feb 3 2008, 12:54 AM
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#16
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Hi-C rounds were in Cannon Companion, so there was no shock there for me when they came back in Arsenal.
As far as Carromoleg, can you give a specific reason to your distaste? Yes it is different from the SR3 version which had it lumped together with Capoeira, but what else is the problem? |
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Feb 3 2008, 12:55 AM
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#17
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
QUOTE (Grinder) Like there is life outside of dumpshock.com for you? I'm dedicated! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
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Feb 3 2008, 01:12 AM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,883 Joined: 16-December 06 Member No.: 10,386 |
QUOTE (BishopMcQ @ Feb 2 2008, 08:54 PM) Hi-C rounds were in Cannon Companion, so there was no shock there for me when they came back in Arsenal. As far as Carromoleg, can you give a specific reason to your distaste? Yes it is different from the SR3 version which had it lumped together with Capoeira, but what else is the problem? I think the new fluff behind Carromoleg is awesome. Standing perfectly still and then nailing someone at the last possible moment is silly IRL, but in game it would come across as badass, which is good enough for me. The calm before the storm and all that crap. I think it's the bonuses people are having a problem with; a die bonus for interception and charging is incredibly situational, as is the +2 die bonus for Surprise tests when you're the aggressor. On the bright side, surprising the other guy so they can't make any sort of reaction to your attack is potentially fatal. That said, I'd take another bonus first, unless the GM's fine with me initiating that attack with say, my assault rifle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) |
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Feb 3 2008, 01:32 AM
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#19
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Pimping your ride and peace makes perfect sense to the Pink Mohawk Crowd.
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Feb 3 2008, 02:09 AM
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#20
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
My first thought when I saw the endoscope gun modification was of a dwarf street doc/combat medic/rigger/sniper using a Barrett with that particular modification to check a teammate for colon polyps.
Edit:I'm sorry, I totally missed the reference to depleted uranium bullets as a "hot" source of radiation the first time around. I got a good laugh out of it. As a radiological hazard, depleted uranium is about as dangerous as French toast. |
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Feb 3 2008, 04:15 AM
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#21
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I was hoping for so much with the martial arts rules and am very disappointed. Basing them on Qualities instead of Unarmed Combat skill makes no sense. Martial arts is a skill, not some special trait which is what Qualities are supposed to be.
Another thing, why weren't the Strength recoil comp rules included? OK I'm a bit surly tonight because my Matrix Specialist Violet had to sit in the car all mission. |
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Feb 3 2008, 05:09 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 199 Joined: 11-September 05 Member No.: 7,729 |
The strength recoil rules were included. Page 163. It even has its own bookmark in the pdf.
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Feb 3 2008, 05:26 AM
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#23
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...oh, OK haven't been through everything in detail yet.
Many thanks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) |
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Feb 3 2008, 01:05 PM
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#24
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Feb 3 2008, 04:15 AM) ...I was hoping for so much with the martial arts rules and am very disappointed. Basing them on Qualities instead of Unarmed Combat skill makes no sense. Martial arts is a skill, not some special trait which is what Qualities are supposed to be. Well, the problem is that martial arts covers many skills. You can't have just kung fu for Unarmed Combat, because many styles use blades and knives and other weapons too. That was one of the major failings of the last martial arts rules. |
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Feb 3 2008, 02:35 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 10-September 05 From: Montevideo, in the elusive shadows of Latin America Member No.: 7,727 |
well... I liked them. Not game breaking, reasonably costy, easy to plug in and plug out if liked / disliked, add options to melee combat, not too flawed, better than prev eds.
Content gamer Cheers! |
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