One About Adepts And One About Essence Options

[ArkonC]

So in the rulebook it says Adept powers are limited by Magic rating (unless the description says otherwise), does this mean that if I manage to get my magic rating up to 30 I could be walking around with rating 30 Combat Sense and rating 30 Mystic Armor?

How do discounts on essence cost add together? Lets say I install Wired Reflexes 2 and Muscle Replacement 2, that costs me 5 essence...
Now, if I find one of those package deals it would be -10%...
I also have that quality that gives me another 10% discount...
So is the cost (5-20%) 4 essence or ((5-10%) 4.5-10%) 4.05?
I know there isn't much difference in the example, hell the problem only posed itself when we were having a theorizing session about the utlimate cyber/bio package...
I assumed it was the latter, but one of the other people insisted the former makes more sense...

[Malicant]

The answer to your adept question would be: yes.

To get to the final Essence cost you do this: ((5-10%) 4.5-10%) 4.05.
Although a mathematician would club you to death for writing it this way.

[Stahlseele]

does this mean that if I manage to get my magic rating up to 30 I could be walking around with rating 30 Combat Sense and rating 30 Mystic Armor?

yes, if you wanted to spend all those magic points to actually GET them up to that level . . but think of the powers that do something in regards of your magic attribute . . like wall-running or gliding or something like that which let's you walk magic meters on walls and over water or something like that . .

[cryptoknight]

So in the rulebook it says Adept powers are limited by Magic rating (unless the description says otherwise), does this mean that if I manage to get my magic rating up to 30 I could be walking around with rating 30 Combat Sense and rating 30 Mystic Armor?

Yes, but the maximum magic attribute is I believe 12... 6 magic with 6 points of initiation (i.e. augmentation to your magic attribute) so that would be 12 combat sense and 12 mystic armor. And with 12 points of magic to power physad powers... there are more interesting things to do than that.

How do discounts on essence cost add together? Lets say I install Wired Reflexes 2 and Muscle Replacement 2, that costs me 5 essence...
Now, if I find one of those package deals it would be -10%...
I also have that quality that gives me another 10% discount...
So is the cost (5-20%) 4 essence or ((5-10%) 4.5-10%) 4.05?
I know there isn't much difference in the example, hell the problem only posed itself when we were having a theorizing session about the utlimate cyber/bio package...
I assumed it was the latter, but one of the other people insisted the former makes more sense...

The second... the discount on the package gives you the essence you lose when you install it. Similar to installing alpha/beta/delta ware. You discount the package's essence by the package/alpha/beta/delate reduction, then apply your modifier to it. Now the alpha/beta/delta mod would stack with the package.

Gamemasters are encouraged to develop their own cyberware
suites, as best fits their campaigns. Cyberware suites have Cost and
Essence Cost Multipliers of 0.9 when adding up the integrated individual
cyberware systems. These multipliers are cumulative with
the modifiers offered by higher grade cyberware (see Cyberware
and Bioware Grades, p. 303, SR4).

But Biocompatibility doesn't reduce the package's essence cost, it reduces the impact of it being put in you.

Biocompatability
Cost: 10 BP
Something about the character’s body is exceptionally accepting
of either bioware or cyberware implants (choose one). Not
only are the implants not rejected, but they seamlessly fit within
the body, having less impact on its holistic integrity. In game terms,
the Essence Cost of implants of the particular chosen type are reduced
by 10 percent. This reduction does not apply to genetech.
This quality may only be taken once.

First you make the package and get it's discount, then you get yours...

[Mr. Unpronouncea...]

Yes, but the maximum magic attribute is I believe 12... 6 magic with 6 points of initiation (i.e. augmentation to your magic attribute) so that would be 12 combat sense and 12 mystic armor. And with 12 points of magic to power physad powers... there are more interesting things to do than that.

No - initiating increases the maximum magic rating, which allows the character to raise his magic rating, which raises the initiation level cap. Vicious circle that peeves non-magic types, as it means magical characters are effectively uncapped (though the sheer amount of karma neccessary to get to absurd levels just means any competant GM would use the character's innumerable weak points against him.

[ArkonC]

The answer to your adept question would be: yes.

To get to the final Essence cost you do this: ((5-10%) 4.5-10%) 4.05.
Although a mathematician would club you to death for writing it this way.

Yeah, I know, but I'm tired of always having to writing correct math at University... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

yes, if you wanted to spend all those magic points to actually GET them up to that level . . but think of the powers that do something in regards of your magic attribute . . like wall-running or gliding or something like that which let's you walk magic meters on walls and over water or something like that . .

Thanks for the advice, but I never had the idea of actually doing it, I was just wondering if it was right...

Yes, but the maximum magic attribute is I believe 12... 6 magic with 6 points of initiation (i.e. augmentation to your magic attribute) so that would be 12 combat sense and 12 mystic armor. And with 12 points of magic to power physad powers... there are more interesting things to do than that.



The second... the discount on the package gives you the essence you lose when you install it. Similar to installing alpha/beta/delta ware. You discount the package's essence by the package/alpha/beta/delate reduction, then apply your modifier to it. Now the alpha/beta/delta mod would stack with the package.


But Biocompatibility doesn't reduce the package's essence cost, it reduces the impact of it being put in you.


First you make the package and get it's discount, then you get yours...

Theoretically the maximum magic you can have is unlimited, your maximum magic rating = your magic rating + your essence...
Explanation:
Assume grades are gotten asap.
Max magic rating = max magic + grade...
Grade = magic rating...
=> max magic rating = max magic + magic rating...
Max magic = essence rounded down...
=> max magic rating = essence + magic rating

This means that as long as you have 1 or more essence, you can always improve your magic rating.
This also means that when your essence falls below 1 you don't lose all your magic, but you'll never be able to improve it unless you get your essence above 1...


And about the essence cost, are you saying that if I get the package I mentioned before delta style I get a 60% (50 for delta, 10 for package) discount and pay 2 essence?
Or is it first the delta, 2.5 E cost and then package, 2.25 E cost?

[Fortune]

Yes, but the maximum magic attribute is I believe 12... 6 magic with 6 points of initiation ...

Where do you get this idea from?

As for Essence modifiers ... as far as I know, the Powers-That-Be have stated that all modifiers for Ware are added together before applying. So 2 '10%' discounts would be a full 20% off the Essence cost.

And about the essence cost, are you saying that if I get the package I mentioned before delta style I get a 60% (50 for delta, 10 for package) discount and pay 2 essence?

Yep. You would get the full 60% of the original Essence cost, as far as I know.

[ArkonC]

Yep. You would get the full 60% of the original Essence cost, as far as I know.

Thanks for the info, this makes our Warenut very happy...
(But why would a streetsam with 1 cha and no social skills need tailored pheromones...)

[Fortune]

But why would a streetsam with 1 cha and no social skills need tailored pheromones...

Because he has no Social skills!?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[ArkonC]

Because he has no Social skills!?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

His reaction was clear: "Why, to get laid of course!"
Argue with that...

[Kyoto Kid]

No - initiating increases the maximum magic rating, which allows the character to raise his magic rating, which raises the initiation level cap. Vicious circle that peeves non-magic types, as it means magical characters are effectively uncapped...

...well not really unless the entire campaign is a Karma Haul. Just to get to an MA of 12 alone would be in the realm of 280 Karma (at base cost for Initiation + MA improvement without a group or ordeal). Given the average karma award we receive in our campaigns (≈6) it would take 47 sessions or nearly a year playing every week. That is also not taking into account learning new spells (for mages), or improving skills/attributes.

[Fortune]

His reaction was clear: "Why, to get laid of course!"
Argue with that...

I wasn't arguing. I was agreeing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)