Recoil negators? Options

[Lord Ben]

What are all the ways to get a SMG to have the most recoil compensation possible? Without cyberware, ie gas vents, etc.

[Snow_Fox]

gas vent 4, stock, under barrel wight or grip. That'll give you 6 points of compensation .

A higher strength will allow some compensation. I'll hold off on mounting an smg on a gyromount stabilizer.

[Lord Ben]

What's the rule on higher strength allowing it? I have 12 strength.

[Lord Ben]

Also, if I have 3pts of recoil comp and I fire two bursts does the recoil comp count twice for each burst or only once?

It's been a long time since I've played 4E.

[Glyph]

In 4E, the recoil compensation applies to each burst, but recoil is cumulative. In other words, the first burst has a -2 modifier, then the second burst has an additional -3 modifier, for a total of -5. So recoil compensation of 3 would negate recoil for the first burst, and reduce it to -2 for the second burst.


4E doesn't have as many options for reducing recoil, and high Strength doesn't help like it did in SR3 (Note that I don't have Arsenal, though, so it's possible that there are rules for that in there, and it might have other recoil compensators, too).

Using the basic book, the best you can do is gas-vent: 3 and a shock pad, for 4 points of recoil compensation. That doesn't include bipods and tripods (not good for a running firefight, but useful if both sides are pinned down), gyro stabilization (a heavy harness, better suited for things like LMGs, but nothing stopping you from using it for an SMG), or the gyro stabilization cyberlimb accessory (probably not something a character with Strength of 12 would want).

[Fortune]

4E doesn't have as many options for reducing recoil, and high Strength doesn't help like it did in SR3 (Note that I don't have Arsenal, though, so it's possible that there are rules for that in there, and it might have other recoil compensators, too).

RECOIL AND STRENGTH
In addition to modifications to the weapons and various accessories, characters can reduce a weapon’s recoil penalty simply by having extraordinary Strength. A character with Strength of 6–9 has 1 point of recoil compensation, Strength 10–13 has 2 points, Strength 14–17 has 3 points, and Strength 18+ has 4 points.

[Lord Ben]

Do gas vents IV, underbarrel weights, etc exist?

My HK-227x has a foldable stock for 1 pt. So I could agg GVIII, and a shock pad for 5pts of recoil comp right? And then my strength gives me 2 more? Sweet.

Alpha has two built in, add in GV and a shock pad for 6pts right? Is that the best that can be done in the core book?

[Raven Bloodeyes]

Gas Vents only go up to 3, even in Arsenal, underbarrel weights (and the auto-adjusted variety) do exist. The shock pads no longer stack with the foldable stock.
With the core book yes. Arsenal adds a few extra tricks, but they cost you... (I've gotten an Ares Alpha up to RC: 7 w/o any "external" stuff like bipod, tripods, or gyro stuff)

ALSO, I didn't think SR4, recoil was applied twice like that...esp. in the extra of burst fire in the fire arms chapter. Am I missing some errata somewhere? For example, is it:
Burst Fire 1st Shot: -2
Burst Fire 2nd Shot: -3

With an RC of 2, so I take:
1st Shot: 0; 2nd Shot: -1
OR
1st Shot: 0; 2nd Shot: -3
????????

[Fortune]

I think you may have misread Glyph's example.

In your example, the second (1st Shot: 0; 2nd Shot: -3) would be correct.

[Daddy's Litt...]

My answers would follow 3rd ed. I would allow for the existance of a gyromount but it's damn silly for an smg. IF you mounted it on a fixed tripod you get +6 compensdation and a lot of people pointing and laughing.
Come to think of it your chummers could probably walk past the guards who are laughing at the set up, and so do the run without firing a shot.

[ixombie]

In 4th ed, using arsenal rules, the maximum recoil mod you can add to an SMG is:

Gas vent III (3)
Personalized Grip (1)
Auto-adjusting underbarrel weight (3 on BF, 2 on FA)
Folding stock (1)

That's up to 8 recoil comp, which lets you fire a full auto burst or a long burst and short burst with only -1 penalty.

[Rasumichin]

or the gyro stabilization cyberlimb accessory (probably not something a character with Strength of 12 would want).

If you've got Augmentation, getting a cyberarm with strenght 12 and gyromount is not that much of a problem- if you're an ork or troll, that is, but with such a strenght score, we can assume you are.
Cyberlimb optimization is a useful option indeed.

[nezumi]

What are all the ways to get a SMG to have the most recoil compensation possible? Without cyberware, ie gas vents, etc.

Mount it on a truck

[Naysayer]

...this would be an excellent cue to link to that youtube-video of guy wasting a sportscar with a vehicle-mounted minigun. But that has been done, twice, in the recent thread on vehicle-mounted weapons and recoil, so I won't. Link, I mean.
But this reminds me: with Arsenal out and all the nice new ways to keep your gat in check, is there a way to haul a Vindicator Minigun around and actually hit anything with it, apart from mounting it on a truck? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

[edit? what edit?! I didn't never not edit anything, ever! ; )]

[nezumi]

But this reminds me: with Arsenal out and all the nice new ways to keep your gat in check, is there a way to haul a Vindicator Minigun around and actually hit anything with it?

Mount it on a truck?

[LGD]

...this would be an excellent cue to link to that youtube-video of guy wasting a sportscar with a vehicle-mounted minigun. But that has been done, twice, in the recent thread on vehicle-mounted weapons and recoil, so I won't. Link, I mean.
But this reminds me: with Arsenal out and all the nice new ways to keep your gat in check, is there a way to haul a Vindicator Minigun around and actually hit anything with it?

Yeah it's actually quite doable now. Gas Vent 3 (3) + Gyro Mount (6) + Hip Pad Bracing System (1) + Heavy Barrel(s) (1) + Personalized Grip (1) is 12 points of recoil compensation and the optional strength recoil rules mean that anyone with 6+ strength will only have a -2 penalty to go to town with the thing and someone with 10+ strength will have no penalties whatsoever. Thus it is now possible for an augmented troll to emulate a certain former U.S. politician and wrestling personality without penalty when engaging in para-military operations in the South American jungle. And anybody else who is reasonably strong (i.e. at the peak unaugmented human limit) and skilled can still use it fairly decent effect.

[LGD]

Double post. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Naysayer]

Arsenal lets you fit gasvents on a minigun?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[LGD]

Arsenal lets you fit gasvents on a minigun?! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Nothing in the minigun sidebar prevents it and "All machine guns and assault cannons can be equipped with top-, barrel-, and underbarrel mounted accessories, unless otherwise noted." It may have been an oversight but at the moment only your bourgeoise notions about what is "plausible" are preventing you from doing so. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[krakjen]

Yeah it's actually quite doable now. Gas Vent 3 (3) + Gyro Mount (6) + Hip Pad Bracing System (1) + Heavy Barrel(s) (1) + Personalized Grip (1) is 12 points of recoil compensation and the optional strength recoil rules mean that anyone with 6+ strength will only have a -2 penalty to go to town with the thing and someone with 10+ strength will have no penalties whatsoever. Thus it is now possible for an augmented troll to emulate a certain former U.S. politician and wrestling personality without penalty when engaging in para-military operations in the South American jungle. And anybody else who is reasonably strong (i.e. at the peak unaugmented human limit) and skilled can still use it fairly decent effect.

The gov'nor never fired the minigun.
Only Blain ("sexual tyrannosaurus") and Mac when the former died.
After that it's all MacGyver-going-camping and low-tech weaponry...

Recoil compensation is for the weak!

[LGD]

The gov'nor never fired the minigun.
Only Blain ("sexual tyrannosaurus") and Mac when the former died.
After that it's all MacGyver-going-camping and low-tech weaponry...

Recoil compensation is for the weak!

I wasn't referring to Schwarzeneggar and what I said was absolutely correct (Schwarzeneggar is a current politician and never wrestled anyhow). Learn yourself some Minnesotan politics son (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[DireRadiant]

The gov'nor never fired the minigun.
Only Blain ("sexual tyrannosaurus") and Mac when the former died.
After that it's all MacGyver-going-camping and low-tech weaponry...

Recoil compensation is for the weak!

Blain was the gov'nor long before that other guy.

[krakjen]

Haha nice, I didn't knew that.
Damn that was a movie full of politicians...

[Raven Bloodeyes]

@ Fortune: Yeah.... I read Glyph's example wrong.... whoops!

For the SMG with -8 Recoil.... you could also add a Heavy Barrel to bring it up to -9 Recoil, but I'm not sure you'd have enough "slots" to pull it all off....