AP and the armorless, The new forum search doesn't like me Options

[hobgoblin]

what they could have done with AV ammo was to cut back on the "soft" AP when compared to APDS.

still, the cost of AV is nearly double that of APDS, it gives a -2AP extra against vehicles and drones, and the cost of the ammo moves it from 12 hours pr test that APDS has to the 1 day pr test...

yep, that means that finding a box of 10 will take you twice as long if your looking for AV rounds compared to APDS...

[Cain]

Doesn't really matter, since you're not going to find either in a hurry unless you're a major social adept. (And even then....)

If you've got the time and the nuyen, you may as well go for the AV over APDS. And if you don't, you're probably going to go EXE over the AV/APDS route. Much cheaper and easier to find. The only time you'd want APDS over AV is if you've got just enough time and just enough money for APDS, but not AV. Which is a rather delicate and unusual set of circumstances.

[Nightwalker450]

Ok, got my Arsenal (Hooray!). But noticed that they fixed Flechette Rounds (+2 DV +5 AP)

But weapons with the (f) type have not been changed. As well as many discrepencies. Thought I'd list and see if anyone can set me right (if I'm reading correct)

Obvious Flechette Rounds These I feel should obviously be changed.
Fichetti Tiffani Needler
Raecor Sting

Shotguns Shotguns have a modified choke, so if these change all their chokes would end up going up as well, perhaps shotguns are a larger flechette and didn't need the AP modification?
Remington Roomsweeper
Mossberg AM-CMDT
Remington 990

Other These could just be Silver Bullet rules albeit +3 DV
Ares Viper Silvergun

[Fortune]

None of the statistics for the guns have been changed to reflect the new, updated flechette damage rules. You could probably adjust them yourself until an Errata makes an appearance.

[Nightwalker450]

I forgot to include the question as to shotguns using different rules.

Most shotguns fire slugs with -1 AP, but have a +2 (+5 now) AP with Flechette.

But if this is a modifier, shouldn't it be +1 (or +4 now) or does flechette completely replace the AP?

[Fortune]

But if this is a modifier, shouldn't it be +1 (or +4 now) or does flechette completely replace the AP?

I would say it modifies the base AP of the firearm, in this case shotguns. If the unmodified AP of a shotgun is -1, then the AP modified by flechette ammunition would +4. The same applies to DV, of course.

[Wounded Ronin]

I wish it were possible to load shotguns with tungsten shot.

[MYST1C]

No armor, no armor modifiers. APDS is a waste on unarmored targets, while flechett really starts to have a good time. Sort of.

With that comment I just have to think of Cyberpunk 2020's "Multi-Purpose Ammo": if the target is armored, use rules for armor-piercing ammo - if it's unarmored, increase damage by 50%...

[Raij]

Other These could just be Silver Bullet rules albeit +3 DV
Ares Viper Silvergun

My players call it the same thing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) It's the Slivergun, not Silvergun. As in it shoots metal slivers (why it's considered flechette ammo), not silver bullets.

[Nightwalker450]

Oh wow... I feel dumb. Helluva oversight on my part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Wounded Ronin]

With that comment I just have to think of Cyberpunk 2020's "Multi-Purpose Ammo": if the target is armored, use rules for armor-piercing ammo - if it's unarmored, increase damage by 50%...

Heh heh, super RPG omni-ammo. What comes to mind, of course, is THV ammo.

[Moon-Hawk]

and the cost of the ammo moves it from 12 hours pr test that APDS has to the 1 day pr test...

Huh, I didn't catch that. True, AV ammo is better than APDS, in every possible way. And odds are, if you've decided that the run is serious enough to break out the expensive ammo then you don't mind the extra expense.
On the other hand, -2AP is not a whole lot, really. And it's -2 only against certain targets. If you're shooting anything else you've completely wasted the extra money. I will admit that costing nearly double and taking over twice as long to get isn't a tremendously huge deal, but neither is -2AP. Modest inconvenience, modest advantage over APDS.
I can live with it.

[hobgoblin]

Oh wow... I feel dumb. Helluva oversight on my part. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

dont worry, its how we spot the new people around here (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Cain]

Huh, I didn't catch that. True, AV ammo is better than APDS, in every possible way. And odds are, if you've decided that the run is serious enough to break out the expensive ammo then you don't mind the extra expense.
On the other hand, -2AP is not a whole lot, really. And it's -2 only against certain targets. If you're shooting anything else you've completely wasted the extra money. I will admit that costing nearly double and taking over twice as long to get isn't a tremendously huge deal, but neither is -2AP. Modest inconvenience, modest advantage over APDS.
I can live with it.

If you know you're going against drones as well as people (and let's face it, what security installation won't have both?) then the choice between the two is well worthwhile.

[Moon-Hawk]

Oh absolutely, Cain, I don't expect to see runners using APDS very often at all; I was just saying that AV is better by a small enough margin that, given the difference in availability and especially cost, it doesn't make the continued existence of APDS in the gameworld unbelievable to me.