Capacity Pg. 331, wtf? over. Options

[Slymoon]

Ok So I understand capacity as far as, cyber eyes, ears, limbs and so on go:
Cybereye Basic System Rating 1 - capacity 4 means that they can hold units of accessories.
Accessories are listed with a capacity [1] meaning it requires at least 1 unit free in the eye in this case.

However on pg.331 is an entire list of Headware with a capacity requirement but what does it go into?

Or maybe I should ask what is the capacity of ones head in SR4... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

This post has been edited by Redjack: Feb 10 2008, 02:23 PM

Reason for edit: Flagged as sr4

[Ryu]

Well yes, one would. See Cyberskulls, or in many cases even other cyberlimbs. The capacity of your skull is obvious 4, synthetic 2.

[Ravor]

Also remember that capacity isn't the same across the board, for some reason no matter how hard you try you simply can not fit a datajack into a cybereye, and after Crash 2.0 techs all over the world forgot how to make an ultrasound sensor work if placed into a pair of cybereyes as well. (I'm not quite sure what happened to everyone who already had one, maybe they all got recalled? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif) )

[Slymoon]

ah, so this goes back to an either Essence or Capacity situation then?

As per Vision accessories in Natural or Cyber Eyes.


@Ravor: I suppose the eye datajacks were recalled as well then. Always thought that was a screwed bit o' ware, but alas.


Edit:
Ok I see it, under the description of cyberlimbs. Alrighty, though the thought of a hollow shell negating the idea that acessories need more essence.

or, has SR4 defined what the reason for essence cost is? Brain/ nerve connections as per SR3? or... is that in debate still.

[Stahlseele]

you simply can not fit a datajack into a cybereye

wait what? didn't that work perfectly fine in SR3? x.x
and how exactly does that capacity work anyway? i mean, you can get cyber-eyes with 16 capacity units i think . . but into a whole cyber-limb there fit only how many units of capacity? 4? 8?

[Ryu]

As Ravor said, there are multiple kinds of capacities. Eyes, Ears, Limbs, Armor modification...

[Ravor]

Exactly, I miss my old ultrasound sensors and eyejacks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Although personally I've finally gave in and started ignoring cyberlimb capacities as per FrankTrollman, and simply use the smell test to decide if something can fit in there or not.

[Stahlseele]

so there's really nothing that can be put in all of those? O.o
so how much boomex can be put into eyes and how much can be put into a full torso?

[Ravor]

I still keep the capacity limits for cybereyes/ears, but a better question to ask is why can't you have five fingertip compartments in a cyberhand when you can in a full cyberarm?

To answer how much explosive you can fit into a cybertorso, not all that much more then a suicide belt would hold since you still have to leave room for all those pesky organs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Stahlseele]

how much capacity does a cybertorso have?
how much capacity do cybereyes have?
if you can put let's say 16 Units of Capacity in Boomex into 2 Cyber-Eyes
and the Torso get's how much? 10? so you can fit MORE Boomex into your eyes than into your Torso? O.o
And if you can put a bodycompartment into the torso which in itself takes away capacity . . can you then pack MORE boomex into said compartment than you could purely into the capacity? . .
and by the way, if i am considering putting boomex in a pair eyes/a torso who cares about the organs in there? *g*

[Ravor]

It's questions like that that made me scrap the capacity rules in the first place. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Stahlseele]

we did that back in SR3 allready to make those limbs at least a little bit playable . . as long as you did not try something like foot anchors anywhere else than in your feet or gyro mounts in your legs you were basically home free to put in as much as you like . . if you really wanna put about 800k into your arm then fine, so be it, but don't come complaining when it actually gets damaged . .

[jago668]

we did that back in SR3 allready to make those limbs at least a little bit playable . . as long as you did not try something like foot anchors anywhere else than in your feet or gyro mounts in your legs you were basically home free to put in as much as you like . . if you really wanna put about 800k into your arm then fine, so be it, but don't come complaining when it actually gets damaged . .

If you put 800k into an arm you better be damn sure that nobody knows it is worth that much. Hell for $800k I'd cut somebodies arm off irl, much less some fictional characters make believe arm.

[ixombie]

I think you can put anything that takes up capacity into anything that has capacity available, within reason. No cyberspurs in cybereyes, for instance. But I see no reason why a little GM discretion couldn't let you sneak a few pieces of headware into an eye or an ear. There's no need for more arbitrary rules thank the book already has.

[Slymoon]

I think you can put anything that takes up capacity into anything that has capacity available, within reason. No cyberspurs in cybereyes, for instance. But I see no reason why a little GM discretion couldn't let you sneak a few pieces of headware into an eye or an ear. There's no need for more arbitrary rules thank the book already has.

What is within reason? That tends to be by opinion.
As I recall in old SR3 you could have an eye gun. Or an eye dart.

So the question is:
The first paragraph specifically notes that any headware with a capacity rating can be installed in a cyberlimb. So can you infact put a datajack into your hand?

This is currently a debate between me and one of my players.
My thoughts are that since, the cyberskull is listed under cyberlimbs it is the limb being refered too. Particularly since the title of the ware is called Headware.

[apollo124]

how much capacity does a cybertorso have?
how much capacity do cybereyes have?
if you can put let's say 16 Units of Capacity in Boomex into 2 Cyber-Eyes
and the Torso get's how much? 10? so you can fit MORE Boomex into your eyes than into your Torso? O.o
And if you can put a bodycompartment into the torso which in itself takes away capacity . . can you then pack MORE boomex into said compartment than you could purely into the capacity? . .
and by the way, if i am considering putting boomex in a pair eyes/a torso who cares about the organs in there? *g*

I think maybe you're thinking that "capacity" is a standard measurement, like meter. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think "capacity" differs from one type of limb to another. Obviously you can't fit the same cubic volume of stuff into an eye as you can a leg or an arm. "Capacity" seems to be a measure of how much roughly compatible stuff can fit in an eye/arm/leg/torso/skull. So, 2 points of eye capacity is way different from 2 points of arm capacity.

[apollo124]

What is within reason? That tends to be by opinion.
As I recall in old SR3 you could have an eye gun. Or an eye dart.

So the question is:
The first paragraph specifically notes that any headware with a capacity rating can be installed in a cyberlimb. So can you infact put a datajack into your hand?

This is currently a debate between me and one of my players.
My thoughts are that since, the cyberskull is listed under cyberlimbs it is the limb being refered too. Particularly since the title of the ware is called Headware.

IMO, you could put a datajack into your hand, but it may cost just a little more, since it would entail a little more surgery and wiring to connect the hand datajack into the appropriate areas of the brain. I think "headware" is mainly a descriptive term used to describe cyber that is usually installed into the head.

[ixombie]

What is within reason? That tends to be by opinion.
As I recall in old SR3 you could have an eye gun. Or an eye dart.

So the question is:
The first paragraph specifically notes that any headware with a capacity rating can be installed in a cyberlimb. So can you infact put a datajack into your hand?

This is currently a debate between me and one of my players.
My thoughts are that since, the cyberskull is listed under cyberlimbs it is the limb being refered too. Particularly since the title of the ware is called Headware.

I don't get it. You seem to be tangled up in the book's vague wording. The wording is not explicit. And the book doesn't own you. Instead of trying to figure out what the book was trying to say, why not go with what makes sense? Is there any good reason why people can't stick cyber in whatever limb they want? I can't see one, not in terms of game balance, nor in terms of fluff. The line to draw is: is it stupid? A datajack in your hand doesn't seem stupid. A hand blade in your eye, though? Stupid. It just requires some discretion.

For instance, cybereyes have a capacity of 16. That's a lot of capacity. But it's also pretty clear to anyone with an ounce of sense what kinds of things can fit into that capacity. An Ultrasound sensor, even though it's classified as headware? Hell yes. A datajack? Again, why not? But how about a capacity 5 grapple gun? Hell no. A capacity 10 cyber sumbachine gun? Hah. It's not some kind of grey area. With about one second's thought, you can figure out, 'should this be small enough to fit into an eyeball?' The book doesn't give you explicit rules on it, so you have to make them up as you go.

Your focusing on the book's wording indicates one of two things to me: a) you feel like you "must" play the RAW or b) you don't feel like letting the person put a datajack in his hand, and you want to use the book to justify that. If it's a), trust me, the book does not control your game! Just go with your gut. If it's b), just tell the player he can't do it because datajacks need to be implanted in the head and that's the way things are. If you try to "prove" it with the book, you will waste time, and won't convince anyone.

[jago668]

What about cyber girl part in your hand. So personal time is a little more enjoyable? =D

[Slymoon]

At this point it is just for debate.

I believe at this point it is not to determine what makes sense. It is to determine who wins the debate, and I have a few serious tangent debaters.

Personally I would love to see someone actually seriously attempt to pass a Grenade launcher in a rating 4 cyber eye. Hell might as well try for one in each eye.

Maybe this thread should be titled:

When is a Cranial Bomb not a Cranial Bomb when it is in your arm?

or better,

I like to smell my feet, thats why I have my Olfactory Booster in my foot, yum.

[jago668]

Eh, I was just being an arse. However the fit stuff pretty much wherever is the way to go. No reason why you couldn't have a commlink built into a cyberarm, like the old cyberlimb deck.

[WeaverMount]

Interesting note. It's cyber-eyes that have capacity of 16 required to accommodate a grenade launcher. A single rating 4 eye has only 8, so if you buy this insanity, one launcher is some how taking up almost all the capacity in two separate eyes.

[LGD]

Interesting note. It's cyber-eyes that have capacity of 16 required to accommodate a grenade launcher. A single rating 4 eye has only 8, so if you buy this insanity, one launcher is some how taking up almost all the capacity in two separate eyes.

Since there is precious little room to fit anything else in there and the grenade launcher only has a 2 grenade magazine anyhow the obvious solution is that the "grenade launcher" is actually the cyber eye-sockets shooting out explosive eyeball grenades (possibly with a burst of compressed gas and then self-propelled?). Tack an extra couple hundred nuyen onto the cost of the ammunition, impose vision penalties for missing one or both eyes and call it good. The shotgun is much harder to envision as a workable mod.

[jago668]

That would definately be a complex action for reloading. Not to mention sorta disturbing looking.

[apollo124]

Yeah. Grenade eyeballs. That has to be the first time anyone anywhere has put that idea together. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)