More Adept Power Points, I MUST have MORE!!! Options

[BishopMcQ]

Dash--Do you see your adepts using the metamagic (Infusing IIRC) that allows them to ramp up a few extra powers for a short period of time then burn out a bit of magic for the same duration? Your houserule would seem to make that obsolete.

[Fortune]

Other magicusers have lots of opportunities to improve their magic abilities without the need of initiation.

And they pay BP for the option to do so. Seriously, I love Adepts, and I don't see them being all that gimped in SR4. Sure you can't munch them out as much as earlier editions, but they are still a very viable character 'class'.

My biggest Adept bitch is the lack of decent Metamagics.

[Kyoto Kid]

I've thought of allowing Adepts to forgo a metamagic and, instead, learn a point of powers when initiating. Total number of power points active at any given time would still be limited by Magic, but it would give people more options to gain different powers to use at different times.

...that actually makes sense. Also you still could only initiate up to your current MA as per the rules and power ratings would still be capped by MA as well. So for example, the Short One could have up to another 5 PPS of powers (MA of 5) to pick and choose from if she wishes. I like that.

In away isn't that how 3rd ed handled Magic loss for adepts? You didn't actually lose powers, but the total number of PPs you could have active at any one time was limited to your adjusted MA. I'll have to go back and check that out when I get home tonight.

[DocTaotsu]

Limiting power points in the fashion described sounds like a pretty decent alternative geas strategy. An adept who is short on karma can get that power/metamagic feat they want but the limitation is that they can't turn everything on at once. I like... hmm....

[Fortune]

In away isn't that how 3rd ed handled Magic loss for adepts? You didn't actually lose powers, but the total number of PPs you could have active at any one time was limited to your adjusted MA.

Nope. You still lost a PP whenever you lost a point of Magic in SR3.

You seem to be remembering SR3 Adepts through rose-colored glasses, and then comparing them to the worst aspects of SR4 Adepts.

[Kyoto Kid]

...again, I have to check that out when I get home.

[jago668]

And they pay BP for the option to do so. Seriously, I love Adepts, and I don't see them being all that gimped in SR4. Sure you can't munch them out as much as earlier editions, but they are still a very viable character 'class'.

My biggest Adept bitch is the lack of decent Metamagics.

Depends on what you consider "munch"ed out. A starting phys ad in second addition took something like 75 karma to just equal what the premade street sam in the book did. Way on down the road you could make them a good bit more powerful, but they most certainly didn't start out crazy powerful.

4th makes them start out more powerful, but their growth stalls pretty fast.

[Dashifen]

Dash--Do you see your adepts using the metamagic (Infusing IIRC) that allows them to ramp up a few extra powers for a short period of time then burn out a bit of magic for the same duration? Your houserule would seem to make that obsolete.

I haven't seen people take that one yet, no. Then again, most of the magic users at my tables don't initiate frequently. I see mostly generalist characters in my games and people have focused on skills and attributes more then magical enhancements. Which is odd because 60% of my current game is awakened. Regardless, this metamagic wouldn't be obsolete; you could still use it for a temporary boost to the powers you have active. Being able to get more powers, arguably, makes this even more useful because you could boost any of them when they're active.

...that actually makes sense. Also you still could only initiate up to your current MA as per the rules and power ratings would still be capped by MA as well. So for example, the Short One could have up to another 5 PPS of powers (MA of 5) to pick and choose from if she wishes. I like that.

Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Reason for edit: Grammar, Spelling

[Kyrn]

Depends on what you consider "munch"ed out. A starting phys ad in second addition took something like 75 karma to just equal what the premade street sam in the book did. Way on down the road you could make them a good bit more powerful, but they most certainly didn't start out crazy powerful.

4th makes them start out more powerful, but their growth stalls pretty fast.

Dude, no. SR2 physads were nine pounds of awesome in an eight pound bag. SR2 combat was all about speed, and the physads were the all high speed gods of SR2 thanks to the simple ability to rock the Improved Reflexes power with implants like Wired, Boosted, Move-by-Wire/Synaptic Accelerator. Then as now the cyber-adept was golden. Melee combat was also insane in that edition.
And in SR4 they should still be advancing rapidly due to nuyen (to be used on new implants, or upgrading existing implants).

[Nightwalker450]

This is kind of related to PP's and how to get more...

Is there any rules for how and adept would go about exchanging his powers for new ones? Most start with Improved Reflexes 2, but since Improved Reflexes 3 is a PP jump from 3 to 5, they don't usually have the Karma to do that jump at one time. So say they take Improved Attribute (Reaction), once they get another PP, can they just swap this out and get Improved Reflexes 3? This is the main one where a swap is necessary. Or in the case of the adept who gets Synaptic Boosters, He'll then have (at least) 1 PP left in Improved Reflexes that is now ineffective, how would he go about changing this?

[Fortune]

Is there any rules for how and adept would go about exchanging his powers for new ones?

There are no rules for that kind of thing in SR4. It would fall on the individual GM to adjudicate it.

That being said, if you are planning on getting implants later, it is a different matter. When you lose a point of Magic, you get to choose which Powers you lose to make up that one point. So in effect, you could 'drop' Powers in that manner, and pick up others in the normal fashion.

[jago668]

Dude, no. SR2 physads were nine pounds of awesome in an eight pound bag. SR2 combat was all about speed, and the physads were the all high speed gods of SR2 thanks to the simple ability to rock the Improved Reflexes power with implants like Wired, Boosted, Move-by-Wire/Synaptic Accelerator. Then as now the cyber-adept was golden. Melee combat was also insane in that edition.
And in SR4 they should still be advancing rapidly due to nuyen (to be used on new implants, or upgrading existing implants).

Dude yes. Go add it up, straight out of the box. It takes more to get the phys ad up to straight street sam.

[Kyrn]

More yes, but very doable at chargen. Pimp the initiative and just kill all the NPCs before they even have a chance to move. God I miss the old initiative rules.

[Malicant]

I miss the first strike power.

[jago668]

More yes, but very doable at chargen. Pimp the initiative and just kill all the NPCs before they even have a chance to move. God I miss the old initiative rules.

Me also, rolling something crazy like a 36 and just wasting everything before they got to go.

[Kyrn]

<teardrop>
How I miss the salad days.

[Kyoto Kid]

...me too (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[melee counter attack]
[non segmented movement]

[Glyph]

Nope. You still lost a PP whenever you lost a point of Magic in SR3.

You seem to be remembering SR3 Adepts through rose-colored glasses, and then comparing them to the worst aspects of SR4 Adepts.

I think he is remembering the old rules from Man & Machine, where bioware caused some kind of funky virtual Magic loss, which actually wound up being more debilitating than cyberware. The errata changed that to a more straightforward Essense loss in subsequent printings.

[Kyoto Kid]

...ah yes, that was it. At the time, I only had the first printing of M&M

[Jhaiisiin]

God I miss the old initiative rules.

As do I. IMO it always made more sense the old way. These chipped up super samurais just move faster than you can see. You so much as twitch, and their reflexes engage and move to stop you, asap. The idea that everyone goes on the first pass always seemed... silly.

[Clyde]

I, too, miss the old days.

How about letting adepts use a power focus to get more PP? It's sad that all they can buy is a weapon focus, after all.

[bibliophile20]

I liked the ideas from this thread, personally: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=16367