The Running Man |
The Running Man |
Feb 14 2008, 04:02 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 8-February 08 Member No.: 15,664 |
I'm pretty sure this has been bought up somewhere else, but can't find it specifically in the search.
I was trying to stat the best Olympic standard running machine using SR4 rules, and it rapidly became apparent that the most athletic runners are trolls. In fact, short of pure Agility based physical feats, trolls are hands down the best athletes in the game. Given this, is it prejudice against Metahumans that has stopped a troll breaking all the world records for track & field events in the 2060s? For example, a troll with Exceptional Attribute (Strength) and maxed out natural Body, Strength and Willpower, along with Aptitude (Running) and maxed out Running with specialization in Sprinting can cover 100m in around 6.38 seconds and sustain that speed for over 700m without breaking sweat. Pushing to the point where stun from fatigue hits maximum means they can cover 1km in just over 1 minute, and that is without any augmentation or drug assistance. By comparison, even a fully augmented Human or Elf will only hit the early to mid 7s for 100m. Fully bio and geneware'd up (i.e. Neo EPO, Hyper Glucagon, Genetic Optimization of Body, Strength and Willpower, Muscle Augmentation 4, Extended Volume 3, Suprathyroid, Synthacardium, Pain Editor) he could cover 100m in around 5.45 seconds and do the mile run in under 1.5 minutes, all without suffering any fatigue at all. At normal jogging speeds (i.e. base running speed, no Sprinting) if his specialization was changed to Long Distance, even without the augmentations he can run a marathon in under 1 hour, and with the above augmentations could do that marathon in an hour without even breathing hard. So I guess my point is, does the fluff mention athletic competitions being dominated by trolls, or is it assumed they are too small in number or restricted from entering? Oh, as a side point, has anyone houseruled the fatigue rules? Body + Willpower (2) to keep going each turn when sprinting is not too much of a problem when you can have 16-20 dice to fling at it, leading to the potential to keep running full speed practically forever... |
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Feb 14 2008, 04:23 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 |
Stop crunching numbers, you do realise this is a rather exceptional character neh?
first of, he is at the very prime of his metatypes psychical abilities, second he possess close legendary expertise in running, my theory is that since sports still practiced selective elitism, most trolls will never bother to strive for being champs cause the only sports they're ever likely to be allowed to attend to on proffesional levels dont really pack that much punch in prestige. If you know you will never be able to participate in the Olympics due to racism, you most likely dont got the motivation to be the fastest trog around, mind that trolls are still the most likely subjects of prejudice. that just my two (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) |
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Feb 14 2008, 04:35 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 8-February 08 Member No.: 15,664 |
Fair point about the number crunching - just had a player who wanted to be the 'fastest man alive' and was a little disheartened to realise that even the fastest human is slower than an un-augmented troll. And you can scale the numbers back to more sensible levels and still trolls are going to dominate.
Guess the racism/prejudice angle is probably the main reason they don't compete. |
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Feb 14 2008, 05:10 PM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 60 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,811 |
As far as I know as of the Tokyo Olympics in '56 nonhumans were barred from entering the official Olympic games with humans (and it's been that way ever since). Metahumans competed for show in exhibition contests, but you wont find a troll gold medal winner.
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Feb 14 2008, 06:33 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 22-November 06 Member No.: 9,934 |
As far as I know as of the Tokyo Olympics in '56 nonhumans were barred from entering the official Olympic games with humans (and it's been that way ever since). Metahumans competed for show in exhibition contests, but you wont find a troll gold medal winner. things like UFC, strongest man, and toughman competitions would probably get sectioned out based upon race since there is such a clear difference between trolls and humans in terms of physical prowess. I can see troll strongest man competitions for charity |
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Feb 14 2008, 07:05 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 271 Joined: 18-April 06 Member No.: 8,481 |
I'm sure there must be troll-only competitions, since nobody can compete physically with a troll except another troll. I also imagine that trog rights advocates don't like troll athletics, because it would be like a freak show. The trogs are only being valued for their amazing physical attributes, and not their minds. Also, showing off just how powerful a troll is isn't a good way to make others feel comfortable about them, and will perpetuate the stereotype that trolls are dumb brutes. But there's money to be made in freak shows, so I bet it still goes on.
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Feb 14 2008, 09:44 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 343 Joined: 30-January 06 Member No.: 8,212 |
I'm sure there must be troll-only competitions, since nobody can compete physically with a troll except another troll. I also imagine that trog rights advocates don't like troll athletics, because it would be like a freak show. The trogs are only being valued for their amazing physical attributes, and not their minds. Also, showing off just how powerful a troll is isn't a good way to make others feel comfortable about them, and will perpetuate the stereotype that trolls are dumb brutes. But there's money to be made in freak shows, so I bet it still goes on. Troll charity Jeopardy anyone? "The first President of the United States of America." *beep beep* "George Washington" "Sorry answers must be phrased as a question." "What is I'm going to rip up this podium and beat you to death with it if I don't get my points?" |
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Feb 14 2008, 10:04 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
They say there is a "gentlemens' agreement" to limit the number or Orks and Trolls in football. I assume that goes for other sports too.
The changed ones were not kept out of the '56 games. they were given their own games, seperate from the human games, to prevent there from being an threat to the changed ones from a hostile crowd. I do not know if that ban was carried on to further games. If you want subtle prejudice, how about a limit in the size of troll shorts and running shoes. At the official village the only beds are human sized. Meaning a troll has to sleep on the floor or in a stupidly undersized bed. If the weight training is on human size machines it won't help them, sorry no free wieghts. And the diet is strictly controlled for optomim performance-human performance-so the trolls would be malnourished. |
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Feb 14 2008, 10:21 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 12-January 08 From: AGS Member No.: 15,214 |
If you do not just look at the numbers and the rules you have to imagine how big and heavy a troll is.
I know that longer legs lead to bigger steps, but did you ever take a big piece of cardboard when you were a child, held it in front of your upper body and ran? I think the dimensions of a troll would slow him down seriously. At least this is what I imagine. |
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Feb 14 2008, 10:32 PM
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#10
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
QUOTE I think the dimensions of a troll would slow him down seriously In the analogon of the child using that cardboard there will be much more resistance compared to length of legs and muscle mass . . with a troll, that would be more or less proportional to each other so a troll won't suffer as much from his own size . . now imagine a troll holding one or two doors in front of him and then trying to run, that's more like it *g* |
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Feb 14 2008, 11:00 PM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 12-January 08 From: AGS Member No.: 15,214 |
[...] now imagine a troll holding one or two doors in front of him and then trying to run, that's more like it *g* Oh... thanks. Imagine cool runners at a rainy night coming out of their favorite bar and then a troll like this is running down the street... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) This funny picture will never leave my mind again. *g* |
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Feb 14 2008, 11:03 PM
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#12
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
hey, we are slow(if not in the legs), not dumb!
he'd hold the door ABOVE his head to avoid rain <.< . . . |
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Feb 14 2008, 11:35 PM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 29-July 06 From: Orlando, FL Member No.: 8,981 |
I always assumed that orcs, trolls and cybered individuals play in their own leagues. They are unbalanced compared to their natural or human counterparts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)
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Feb 14 2008, 11:49 PM
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#14
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Elves and Orcs play at least in baseball with humans . .
trolls and dwarves got their own leagues as far as i remember |
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Feb 15 2008, 12:55 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
Dwarf baseball. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif)
If there ever was a game designed for beer, that is it. |
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Feb 15 2008, 02:46 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
I always assumed that orcs, trolls and cybered individuals play in their own leagues. They are unbalanced compared to their natural or human counterparts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) Right, leagues that are seperate from the one with humans in them, but fully equal in the opportunities they offer to changed ones. That sounds fair. |
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Feb 15 2008, 04:18 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 249 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando Member No.: 815 |
Yeah, and keeping races separate but equal has a long and successful history in North America. Oh wait.
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Feb 15 2008, 04:55 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 22-November 06 Member No.: 9,934 |
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Feb 15 2008, 06:57 PM
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#19
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
I also imagine that trog rights advocates don't like troll athletics, because it would be like a freak show. The trogs are only being valued for their amazing physical attributes, and not their minds. Ha! I think that would last for as long as it took a troll to pick up the nearest troll rights activist and batter him against the nearest wall. Troll: "Demeaning?" Picks up protestor and jams predator in face. "Tell me what's demeaning of this, pal!" |
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Feb 15 2008, 07:33 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 811 Joined: 30-January 07 From: Portland, OR Member No.: 10,845 |
As much as I dislike the notion "separate but equal", I feel that it is the only option in this case. Im not sure if Orcs and Elves might be able to compete with Humans fairly, but Trolls and Dwarves are too far outside the norm that I just cant see it happening. Trolls are SO big that certain events they would dominate purely because they were born as Trolls. Whether this is good or bad I dont know. What I do know is that it is unfair. The same would go the other way for Dwarves. They wouldnt have a chance in sprinting compared to other races, but that doesnt mean that among them, some are faster than others.
I think if all where allowed to compete on the same stage, they would definitely keep different races' records separate. |
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Feb 15 2008, 07:53 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
Or we have affarmative action and the NBA's Chicago Bulls introduces their state mandated, I mean, exciting new prospect at forward, Howard "3feet 6 is tall enough" Desmangles
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Feb 15 2008, 07:57 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 698 Joined: 26-October 06 From: Iowa, United States Member No.: 9,720 |
I can't imagine any exceptions being made for dwarves, they can compete but why bother with the dwarven disadvantages. Elves and Orcs would for the most part be able to compete with humans. But Orcs don't have the resources as much to make it, or reach their limits. Elves on the other hand wouldn't compete, because they already know they're better than humans (damn elves...). Trolls would probably be straight up banned, nobody's going to fund a seperate olympics for them and their awakening would be considered "performance enhancing magic". Perhaps trolls would be allowed in Cyber/Troll leagues, but they're pretty niche, and so there's probably not too many of them.
Interesting thought... Cyber league football = Nascar or Battlebots Its only minimally based on skill, and alot based on (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) (Not saying Nascar doesn't have skill, but its basically a machine and pilot, and even Nascar has regulations to keep a level field) |
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Feb 15 2008, 08:27 PM
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#23
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
there's a bit about football being regarded as allmost bloodsport somewhere i think . .
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Feb 15 2008, 09:30 PM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 29-July 06 From: Orlando, FL Member No.: 8,981 |
Yeah, and keeping races separate but equal has a long and successful history in North America. Oh wait. There is a difference. Black, White, pink, yellow, Rainbow there is pretty much minimal difference physical maximums. There is a difference between a troll and a Human as their norms and maxes are off of each other. Its not Seperate but Equal, it really is seperate and different for fairness's sake. A Human can't really withstand the full on Blitz of a Troll Based Defensive line. Its all about keeping the playing field physically fair. |
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Feb 15 2008, 09:33 PM
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#25
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,930 Joined: 9-April 05 From: Scandinavian Union Member No.: 7,310 |
There is a difference. Black, White, pink, yellow, Rainbow there is pretty much minimal difference physical maximums. There is a difference between a troll and a Human as their norms and maxes are off of each other. Its not Seperate but Equal, it really is seperate and different for fairness's sake. A Human can't really withstand the full on Blitz of a Troll Based Defensive line. Its all about keeping the playing field physically fair. now that would be an intresting match, i'd imagine shadowrun unrestricted soccer looking something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U-voZv0M7I |
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