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> UCAS Military, How are things arranged?
TinkerGnome
post Dec 2 2003, 04:42 AM
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I'm currently thinking heavily on what the standard soldiers in the UCAS armed forces would look like. Are there stats anywhere that I can adapt to my ends? Failing that, does anyone know what companies hold the production contracts for weapons, armor, etc.?

If there are books out there with this info, I'd appreciate the references as well :) Otherwise, it's time to start making things up (which is still fun).
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Dim Sum
post Dec 2 2003, 04:49 AM
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Canadians are sent out ahead of the main line of battle in compact formation as mine sweepers - they stick their fingers in their ears, tongues licking their lips as they use their right feet to probe ahead one step at a time.

The Americans bring up the rear with tanks and shit.
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Tanka
post Dec 2 2003, 04:54 AM
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I slap Dim Sum with my Trout of Infalibility...
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Fortune
post Dec 2 2003, 04:54 AM
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IIRC, there is information and examples of UCAS soldiers in Super Tuesday and either Brainscan or RA: Sutdown.
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Fortune
post Dec 2 2003, 04:56 AM
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QUOTE (tanka)
I slap Dim Sum with my Trout of Infalibility...

It can't be too infallible! :D
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Dim Sum
post Dec 2 2003, 04:59 AM
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The Trout of Infallibility??? :eek:

Whoa! Is that, like, a major artefact?!! Can my 18th level half-elven fighter/macho tree hugger/monk of Chaotic Indifferent alignment use it?

*runs away with the fish*

:D
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Tanka
post Dec 2 2003, 05:00 AM
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Curse you spelling, curse you!

It's the fact that a girl I know (and who I think is quite hot) isn't sending me a picture that she keeps telling me about.

Or maybe because it's midnight.
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Dim Sum
post Dec 2 2003, 05:05 AM
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Midnight?

It's just gone 1300 over here.

A-hah!

Proof that time travel is possible! I'm 13 hours ahead of you in the future!

:grinbig:
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Tanka
post Dec 2 2003, 05:08 AM
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Silly Singaporian. Or person in Singapore.

Ha! I read the little thing on the side! I win!

Or not.

Oh, yeah, topic...

Uh... Wasn't there an entry in one of the Neo-A books? If not, maybe Target: UCAS or somesuch.
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Dim Sum
post Dec 2 2003, 05:17 AM
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Citizen of Singapore = SingaporEAN :)

However, I am, thankfully, not one. I just work here ... live here ... married here. More to do here than in Pencilvainia (isn't that something to do with being vain about your pencils?). :D

On topic ... TinkerGnome, I don't recall any canon material on the subject, dude.
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mfb
post Dec 2 2003, 05:40 AM
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i hate to be the one to put this back on-topic, but:

Colt's got the contract for the M-22/23. other than that, i'm not sure--but given the insanely unpredictable state of SR's financial world, i'm willing to bet the UCAS renegotiates contracts for fungible goods (ammo, MREs, clothing, etc.) on a yearly basis, if not more often. in SR, governments have to maintain some level of financial viability, or they'll lose all of their independence from the corps (instead of just most of it).

what i'm saying is that you can make up the manufacturers of military goods, and still be correct--maybe the same manufacturer doesn't have the contract this year, but it's easily possible that they did last year and might get it again next year.

as far as grunt stats, i think--and many people agree--that most militaries will be going towards smaller, leaner, meaner militaries. therefore, don't be afraid to give all your grunts a smartlink-1, formfit layered under armored camo, and EX-X ammo (or whatever gear floats your boat). everyone should have ARs at 5 or so, and sergeants should have SUT at the same level. they should be medium-badass, probably around the proficiency of a starting-level runner. i tend to give them professional ratings of 3 and karma pools of 2 or so.
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moosegod
post Dec 2 2003, 05:44 AM
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A lot of this stuff gets covered in the thread on magic users in the military.
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Bulldrek
post Dec 2 2003, 08:00 AM
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Wow, closing the lounge really upped the ante round these parts. Jeesh I take about eight months worth of vacation and look what happens to the joint?

Moosegod is correct that this very topic has been very well covered in the past, and if you are interested in some pretty serious answers i'd start my search at the old forums, and the Shadowrun Archive-I can think of at least a dozen really good threads that I have seen over the years, and the Archive has some decent ideas to kick around.

MFB is correct about the Colt contract, although I seem to recall, and someone fact check me here, that Colt is a subsidiary of Ares? Is that even close to being correct? Either way, expect Ares which maintains close ties with the UCAS government to supply a great deal of their day to day beans, bullets and drekcetera.

Also expect Ares at the minimum, and probably some other corps to cross train with UCAS forces at all levels. (Well maybe not Flagg rank staff...but you never know.)

I agree with the downsizing remark, as far as it goes, although I caution you to remember that the balkanization of North America means that everyone keeps their people active and training.

Personally I'd tailor the NPC"s to fit my campaign-if you're running starting characters, at lets say 123 points, then make your average grunt oppostion run at about a 110 points, but keep in mind everybody in the military has a buddy, and the fire team is the basic level of Unit Organization. So encountering 4 or more dog faces at once would be a real easy thing to do. Play up the coordinated fields of fire, and combined arms and you can make even the lamest grunt a real threat. (Yeah i'm a plebe, but a plebe with artillery support and my bud here has a Stoner HMG, wanna find out why its called a general purpose weapon?)
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Dogsoup
post Dec 2 2003, 08:45 AM
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What about APDS? How common is it among the common troopers?
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Tanka
post Dec 2 2003, 12:41 PM
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It's probably reserved for special forces and snipers. No use throwing APDS in an automatic weapon. Too many wasted bullets when regular ammo works just as well. (Excluding the 1/2 Ballistic)
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Austere Emancipa...
post Dec 2 2003, 12:52 PM
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QUOTE (tanka)
No use throwing APDS in an automatic weapon.

IRL, APDS ammunition is mostly -- almost exclusively -- used in MMGs and HMGs. M948 7.62x51 NATO SLAP rounds in M240s and M60s as well as M134 and the odd sniper rifle, and M903 and M962 SLAP and SLAP-T .50BMG rounds for M2HBs. I'm under the impression that Barretts and the like cannot fire APDS ammunition, probably because of the muzzle brakes?
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Tanka
post Dec 2 2003, 01:11 PM
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The Barret considers its special ammo APDS, IIRC.
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Austere Emancipa...
post Dec 2 2003, 01:31 PM
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I was talking IRL all the way through, I'm sorry that was a bit unclear. The REAL Barretts cannot fire APDS ammunition. At least that's what the nifty realmedia video that used to be (and might still be) on Raygun's site said.

Yes, Barrett M121 ammunition is automagically considered APDS ruleswise in SR canon. Those cost a lot more than normal rounds anyhoo (7 vs 20 nuyen a pop), and have an extra bonus of halved Barrier Ratings too, which normal APDS ammo doesn't have (IIRC). And the Barrett M121 is pretty screwy anyway -- like the moronic +2 Recoil on the first shot, or the integral silencer, or the fact that it can't fire AV ammunition... WTF?
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TinkerGnome
post Dec 2 2003, 01:32 PM
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Thanks for the book references. I also found another recent thread here that covers a lot of my questions. If the search function didn't make me foam at the mouth, I'd probably have found it before posting ;)
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JongWK
post Dec 2 2003, 04:34 PM
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Aztlan SB states that Aztlaner (or Aztek, as in Shadowbeat) troops use the big clumsy weapons, while Aztechnology has all the cool stuff (i.e, SotA Laser Weapons, Militech Armor, etc). Aztlan's military is 50.000 strong, while Aztechnology has 150.000 in uniform.

Then again, that is a special case.

I'd imagine the UCAS military to be heavy with Ares and Novatech equipment. Lots of soldiers, too, maybe not as many as the CAS (check SoNA's CAS & UCAS chapters).
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FlakJacket
post Dec 2 2003, 04:53 PM
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IIRC the CAS has the largest standing army in north America, sitting mainly down in Texas playing a game of who blinks first with the Azzies.
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moosegod
post Dec 2 2003, 05:08 PM
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Largest, yes. However, their equipment tends to be lower par than everyone elses (YotC p. findityourself).

The UCAS is famous for its airpower and use of expensive gear.
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JongWK
post Dec 2 2003, 06:33 PM
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APDS is standard for both Aztlan and ACS (Aztechnology Corporate Security) forces.

The lower end troops from both tend to have a by-the-book approach to problem solving (little imagination).

On the other side of the coin, the Azzies compensate with superior firepower and armor: when Lone Star cop would use Amor Jacket and Thunderbolt, the Azzie beat cop uses security armor and assault rifles... kinda makes you worried, doesn't it? :P
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Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*
post Dec 2 2003, 08:21 PM
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Nope. It only worries me South of the border, down Aztlan way... Oh, sorry, that if ACS kills someone while shooting at you, YOU'RE liable.
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JongWK
post Dec 2 2003, 11:14 PM
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Oh yes, that too. Add to that the fact that they like to switch (without warning) their elite troops with the standard beat cops.

PC: "Ha! I attack the cop"

DM: (Rolls 4d6+14 Initiative)

PC: "Errr..."
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