Monofilament Weapon Focus, Is it legal? Options

[nathanross]

Hey, just wondering whether it is legal or not to make a weapon focus from a Monofilament Whip/Garrot.

Please let me know.

[mfb]

yup. it's a melee weapon.

[hyzmarca]

Yes.

[fool]

It's up to your GM In sr3 you weren't allowed to make a dikoted weapon into a focus, because the process of dikoting made it impossible to enchant. A GM could make a similar ruling on a monofilament devise. Having said that, the raw answer is yes

[Stahlseele]

and here i thought dikote made it only harder, not virtually impossible to do the enchanting O.o
the TN just rose from whatever to 10 or 12+ as far as i remember *g*

[hyzmarca]

It's up to your GM In sr3 you weren't allowed to make a dikoted weapon into a focus, because the process of dikoting made it impossible to enchant.

Where'd you see that? I don't remember it.

[Glyph]

From the FAQ:

If your weapon focus requires fuel or power (monofilament chainsaw, vibroblade, laser crescent axe) does it work when you're astrally projecting?

Yes, but since the technological aspect of the weapon (moving parts, monofilament, laser blade, etc.) doesn't apply in the astral, the weapon should be treated as its nearest basic equivalent (a chainsaw would simply be a club, a laser crescent axe would just be an axe, and so on).

So if they are assuming things like chainsaws and laser axes as viable weapon foci, I don't think a monofilament whip is really out of line.

[tisoz]

This FAQ answer is kind of lame abrupt. Just because the movement is mechanical should not matter. This is like saying any machine that is fueled is stationary on the astral plane. They should have stated that Weapon Foci, needing connection to the user and powered by the user, do not gain the extra power conveyed by the mechanical means.

Make it so that fuel source has to be dual nature, too. If this means when the battery runs out or the tank goes dry, the weapon is no longer powered (as in the FAQ answer), so be it. It could also mean enchanted batteries and enchanted gas, so that it is dual natured and can refuel/repower the item. Otherwise we'll see people trying to have enchanted transporttion.

Monowire does not get its bonus damage from external power. So I would say it works the same on the astral plane, until someone convinces me the principle of its damage does not apply on the astral plane.

[FrankTrollman]

The answer is in reference to the ability to take spirit forms of weapon foci with you on the astral plane. While dual natured, a monofilament chainsaw weapon focus works fine. But when you astrally project with one, the spirit form of the motor doesn't work and the blades don't spin.

-Frank

[nathanross]

Now I have nothing against it except that it doesnt fit my sense correctness. Now if I remember correctly, a weapon focus must incorporate a certain amount of Orichalcum (based on reach). Now how on earth are you going to forge a monofilament whip with Orichalcum and still have it retain the monofilament's original properties.

Also, do sharp edges matter on the astral plane or in astral combat? Im thinking this since there Astral Combat is a battle of Auras not physical destruction which conventional weaponry is most effective at doing.

[Tobias]

You never actually have to have Orichalcum in a weapon foci but it makes it much easier to enchant/bind. It'd be hard to enchant as it is behind a highly processed item. But never an actual need for it.

[Ed_209a]

I agree it should be possible, but much harder than a lower-tech weapon.

Regarding Orichalcum, couldn't it be worked into the handle and counterweight? I'd agree it could not be part of the mono line.

[mfb]

It's up to your GM In sr3 you weren't allowed to make a dikoted weapon into a focus, because the process of dikoting made it impossible to enchant.

not quite accurate. dikoted and other highly-processed materials can be used for enchanting in SR3, it's just harder and more expensive to do so.

[Rasumichin]

Now I have nothing against it except that it doesnt fit my sense correctness. Now if I remember correctly, a weapon focus must incorporate a certain amount of Orichalcum (based on reach).

Yes, if you still play SR2 (or 3 also, probably).
In SR4, it is no longer required.

[FrankTrollman]

Yes, if you still play SR2 (or 3 also, probably).
In SR4, it is no longer required.

It wasn't required in the previous editions either. The description in the basic book said that they had Orichalcum worked into them, but the rules for creating foci merely gave you bonuses for enchanting it. Not that it matters of course, because using Orichalcum has never necessitated actually having any orichalcum in the finished project. This little gem has been in the book since the first edition Grimoire:

Whether the materials are built into the focus or simply consumed during the ritual, they are bound to that focus and cannot be retrieved for any other purpose. Consider them expended.

Just because you happen to be using a monofilament garrote for your material base doesn't mean you can't use orichalcum, you just consume it during the enchanting process and you get the same bonus.

-Frank

[stevebugge]

Somehow consuming Orichalcum doesn't sound like such a hot idea, seeing as it's an amalgam fo Gold, Silver, Copper, and Mercury (IIRC) I would think your USRDA of it would be pretty low. Oh you didn;t mean I have to eat it? I could just burn it or something that sounds better.

Seriously I think just about anything can be made in to any type of focus if your're willing to put up with the modifiers, at least through SR3 I haven't been through the SR4 enchanting rules enough to know for sure but I think it's still possible to say make your commlink in to a powerfocus. That does not mean that you will be able to hack from the astral if you do, just means that you don't have to carry as many things around with you on the physical plane.

My understanding is that the Astral basically runs on Metaphysics, not actual Physics. Mass, Sharpness, and Hardness have little implication on the astral. A power Focus shaped as a spear for example would not be pointy or sharp or useable as a weapon because it's symbolic purpose is to focus magical energy, not be a weapon. The technologic advantages of a high tech weaopn focus would be lost on the astral as it would revert to being an example of a base type, chainsaw might be hard to classify because it's purpose is to cut so it metphysically could be a sword but it's also just a glorified club if the motor dies so it could be a club on the astral as well.

[Glyph]

The only reason the monofilament chainsaw doesn't work is because the motor doesn't work on the astral, though. Weapon foci on the astral plane do damage by weapon type, so sharp edges do matter, and a monofilament whip would work just fine, the same as a sword or a club would.

[Tobias]

But then again a monofilament garrotte can't be used in normal combat, so you have to sneak up and garrotte the poor astral entity.

[ixombie]

I can't believe how many replies this thread has generated! Per RAW, you can have a monofilament whip weapon focus. It works the same on the astral as it does in the material. Fell free to house rule it if that pisses you off, but that's how it is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[stevebugge]

The only reason the monofilament chainsaw doesn't work is because the motor doesn't work on the astral, though. Weapon foci on the astral plane do damage by weapon type, so sharp edges do matter, and a monofilament whip would work just fine, the same as a sword or a club would.

Actually it's the concept or impression of sharp edges that matters on the astral, not if the weapon is sharp or pointy on the physical plane. Enchanting a MonoWhip would require creating an Astral impression of an ultrafine super sharp cable astrally, but is doable which probably accounts, at least in part, for the greater difficulty in enchanting. However if for some reason you crafted a MonoWhip in to a sustaining focus it would have no damaging properties at all on the astral plane.

[Ravor]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) Of course it's not legal, you are talking about a Class F weapon, the 'Star will haul you away and put you to work as a wagemage after allowing Bubba (the LOVE troll) to have his way with you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif)