Any reason for Adepts to get Quickdraw Anymore? Options

[Feshy]

I guess I was thinking about accelerating the baby all at once to a velocity where it could punch through a wall. A baby wouldn't maintain its structural integrity if you did that, the acceleration would destroy it before it got to the wall.

Though I can't rule out something that accelerates the baby more gradually. Like if you had it on a rocket boster with a slow acceleration, you could get the baby to supersonic velocities without obliterating it with acceleration.

But I think I was right in the context of this discussion. We're not talking about firing a sabot-protected baby out of a cannon, or sticking a rocket booster onto a baby. We're talking about throwing the baby. If you could throw hard enough for something with the mass of a baby to go through a brick wall, you'd probably be throwing too hard for the baby not to disintegrate.

Probably. I figure a barely-supersonic baby is about the minimum you could expect to penetrate a reasonably reinforced wall. With a good throwing technique using the whole body, a troll is still probably stretching to get a 3m acceleration arc to reach a speed of around 1500 m/s.

d=at^2
v = at

so 3 = 1500t, or t = 0.002.

So a troll throwing a baby at supersonic speeds accelerates the baby at 750,000 m/s or ~76,500g. Unless my math is way off (hey, it has been a long time!) that's well beyond the structural capabilities of a baby.

Unless it has immunity to normal weapons or regeneration.

[ixombie]

Not true, see the Mythbusters episode with the chicken cannon.

The velocities in the chicken cannon were not so extreme that a thawed chicken would be destroyed. And both the frozen and soft chicken were more than hard enough to go through the fragile canopies. The canopies exerted such piddly force back on the chickens that, thawed or frozne, the chickens went right through. We're talking about brick walls with the babies.

[Feshy]

IIRC, Quickdraw has a lower Threshold.

But learning KravMaga and getting Ready Weapon as a Free Action is still better most of the time.

That depends. It costs far more karma to do, but it does get you out of making a test and it applies to any size weapon. If you're a high-agility character pulling weapons you're skilled at, that might not be the best tradeoff. On the other hand, if you're a troll with a polearm...

[GryMor]

Probably. I figure a barely-supersonic baby is about the minimum you could expect to penetrate a reasonably reinforced wall. With a good throwing technique using the whole body, a troll is still probably stretching to get a 3m acceleration arc to reach a speed of around 1500 m/s.

Your math was close...
d = 0.5 a t^2
v = a t
a = 0.5 v^2/d

Your target velocity was a wee bit high...
1500 m/s is mach 4.4

Your conclusion holds.
350 m/s dv over 3 meters is an acceleration of approximately 2000 gs

I STILL think the baby is going to punch through the wall, but the wall won't hurt the baby in so much as the throw already pulped the kid.

[ShadowDragon8685]

The velocities in the chicken cannon were not so extreme that a thawed chicken would be destroyed. And both the frozen and soft chicken were more than hard enough to go through the fragile canopies. The canopies exerted such piddly force back on the chickens that, thawed or frozne, the chickens went right through. We're talking about brick walls with the babies.

Not just the canopies, though. remember, the "test shot" with the chicken not only went through the canopy, it went through a Lexan barrier.

[Feshy]

Your math was close...
d = 0.5 a t^2
v = a t
a = 0.5 v^2/d

Your target velocity was a wee bit high...
1500 m/s is mach 4.4

Your conclusion holds.
350 m/s dv over 3 meters is an acceleration of approximately 2000 gs

I STILL think the baby is going to punch through the wall, but the wall won't hurt the baby in so much as the throw already pulped the kid.

Oops. That'll teach me to grab the first number that shows up when I google, rather than reading to see if it is the right number.

That speed yeilds a value of about 2Mj of energy on impact; about the same as a pound of high explosives. According to Arsenal's table, that's enough to breach an "average" material, but probably only a very small hole in a "heavy" material like I'd imagine a solid wall would be. It might just barely be enough to fit a baby through.

Edit:

Interestingly, according to Wikipedia, that acceleration is about an order of magnitude higher than the record survivable acceleration. That might or might not leave the baby "pulped" as you say.

Maybe if the troll used a rugby stick? You'd probably double the distance... and have a cup-shaped bit just in case th baby pulped anyway...

[Daier Mune]

actualy, i'd say that if an adept took quickdraw *and* iajitsu, the guy could probably "whip it out" without even needing to make a test. (or at least a threshold of 1)

[Zuzuzu]

About increasing the acceleration arc - remember, it is not directly tied to arm length or anything. Troll could be using a technique similar to olympic hammer throwing - spinning around until the speed is satisfactory, then releasing.

[KCKitsune]

My God, I don't believe that I just witnessed a discussion about using a BABY as a improvised weapon! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) Then the discussion went to the BABY's structual integrity... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) You people are sick... just sick I tell you! Anyways, what would a baby thrown by said troll do to a Lone Star police cruiser? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[ixombie]

You think we're sick? Go read the thread called Mai Chan's daily life, and then come back and apologize.

[DocTaotsu]

Why has no one suggested the obvious.

Throw a troll baby, bonus to body, +1 armor.

Steel jacketed troll babies, the next best thing to APDS.

[cx2]

Laughing so hard I cried right now.

[DocTaotsu]

Our job here is done folks, pack up those SJTB and lets get out of here.

[Zuzuzu]

what would a baby thrown by said troll do to a Lone Star police cruiser?

This actual phrase caught my imagination, which came up with this picture. Actual Lone Star cruiser will hardly look like this exact vehicle, but the idea holds.

[Moon-Hawk]

This actual phrase caught my imagination, which came up with this picture. Actual Lone Star cruiser will hardly look like this exact vehicle, but the idea holds.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)
Awesome.

[mfb]

Zuzuzu, you have won the Internet.

[Stahlseele]

This actual phrase caught my imagination, which came up with this picture. Actual Lone Star cruiser will hardly look like this exact vehicle, but the idea holds.

i feel the need to use the motivational posters tool to write the text:
SHADOWRUN: kinda like this
onto this very picture . . and i will frigging do so once i get home from work!

[Stahlseele]

as i threatened:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2125/228273...7653040bc_o.jpg
and because i could not help myself(or do the whole image at once)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2029/228194...4b65afc9d_o.jpg

[Ryu]

This actual phrase caught my imagination, which came up with this picture. Actual Lone Star cruiser will hardly look like this exact vehicle, but the idea holds.

Thats great! Do you do such things often?

[Stahlseele]

with quality like that on such short notice he/she/it(come on, with that name, it could be everything <.<) bloody well should! *g*

[Dantic]

This actual phrase caught my imagination, which came up with this picture. Actual Lone Star cruiser will hardly look like this exact vehicle, but the idea holds.

Excelent Artwork!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Zuzuzu]

Thanks everyone (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

About doing such things often - well, vivid ideas for pix don't come up all the time, plus i'm just too damn lazy, but Shadowrun is rather rich with tasty visual concepts so reading these forums will likely spawn few more graphic ideas.

[Fortune]

About doing such things often - well, vivid ideas for pix don't come up all the time, plus i'm just too damn lazy, but Shadowrun is rather rich with tasty visual concepts so reading these forums will likely spawn few more graphic ideas.

Guaranteed!

Welcome to Dumpshock.

I'm afraid to say that you just might have, with that excellent introduction, set yourself up for an influx of pic requests. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[DocTaotsu]

Way to introduce yourself to Dumpshock. That's clearly one of my favorite SR related things ever.

[KCKitsune]

You think we're sick? Go read the thread called Mai Chan's daily life, and then come back and apologize.

I did... and that was very disturbing. This was sick in a funny way, that was just... sad.

Oh, and Zuzuzu, that was very nicely done... though that baby was way too intact... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)