Stun rounds vs vehicles |
Stun rounds vs vehicles |
Dec 2 2003, 05:09 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 424 Joined: 11-May 02 From: Marauding the mighty North Saskatchewan Member No.: 2,720 |
Something interesting came up in game play last night. A security dude mistakenly opened up on one of my drones with a weapon full of gel rounds. Is there any rules covering this? While it states somewhere that Body 0 vehicles are destroyed if they take any weapon damage what about Body 1 or 2? Especially flying ones it would seem that there might be some effect.
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Dec 2 2003, 05:14 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
A quick and dirty answer, without knowing the exact situation would be, no effect.
I would probably add wound modifiers til the end of the round or something, just for the impact, but no actual damage. |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:17 PM
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#3
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Hmm... in canon, there doesn't seem to be an effect. I'd make you take a crash test, though, for a flying drone if the "damage" would have caused knockback (using the drone's body, etc).
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Dec 2 2003, 05:18 PM
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#4
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
It doesn't matter if you whack a car with a sword or a baseball bat, they're both going to do damage. The same is true of the various ammunition types; it doesn't matter if it's regular or gel rounds, they're still doing damage.
Though the amount of damage is going to be neglible in most cases due to the rules for standard weapons and vehicles, especially vehicles with armor. If you didn't have any armor on the vehicle... well, it was going to go down sooner or later on a run. |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:19 PM
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#5
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Gel rounds only do stun damage, though. |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:26 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
I'd say do the suggested knockback rules. Maybe damage on a really good roll.
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Dec 2 2003, 05:29 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 226 Joined: 4-June 03 Member No.: 4,685 |
Still I agree about kinetic energy. Also you could make some body test to see if sensors were hit or clogged with gel.
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Dec 2 2003, 05:30 PM
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#8
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
So do baseball bats. What's your point? |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:31 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 639 Joined: 22-April 02 Member No.: 2,638 |
And where do you apply Stun damage when you've got no room on your stun monitor? ;) |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:32 PM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
What are the rules for stun damage attacks to vehicles? |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:35 PM
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#11
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
The Condition Monitor. It makes no distinction between Physical or Stun damage because both are equally effective against a vehicle. Vehicles are not humans; it doesn't matter if you're smashing them or puncturing them, they both have the same end effect. You'll also note that vehicles don't have different Ballistic/Impact ratings.
The condition is up to you to find a rule that states that Stun damage is ignored, not me to find one where it states that it's not. |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:35 PM
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#12
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Eh? If you want to get technical:
So nowhere. I'd let a baseball bat or gel round destroy a body 0 drone but not much else. A crash test would probably be involved, too, for moving drones (that would have taken damage only). [edit] To make that more sensical, if a vehicle/drone would have taken damage from the attack (had it not been stun) after applying body modifiers and armor and rolling damage resistance, I'd make it take a crash test. Generally, the only things you'll see hitting that category are body 2 or less vehicles and drones. Joe Troll would need a strength of 19 to even have a hope of making a citymaster budge, for instance (and even then, it'd be resisting 2L with its body dice). [/edit] |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:37 PM
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#13
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
I stand corrected then.
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Dec 2 2003, 05:43 PM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
I'll chime in with "no effect".
It might damage a glass lens or other vulnerable sub-part if they call a shot. |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:43 PM
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#15
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Also vehicles and drones do not suffer knockback, knockback specifically applies to characters.
You do not slide a vehicle a meter sideways by shooting it. |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:43 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 639 Joined: 22-April 02 Member No.: 2,638 |
Actually, I was concurring with your argument, not TinkerGnome's. My point was that just because vehicles don't have stun monitors doesn't mean they ignore stun damage. Rather, the stun damage to a vehicle is treated just like overflow stun damage to a living creature, i.e., apply it to the physical monitor. As to TinkerGnome's quote:
I'd be interested in seeing what the rest of that paragraph has to say as well (don't have my books here with me at work, unfortunately :(). |
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Dec 2 2003, 05:52 PM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
But if it's in the air, it'll move at least slightly. I think opening up on a small flying drone with a full-auto burst of gel rounds should be enough to knock it into a nearby wall or something. I wouldn't say it's out of the question, realism-wise. |
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Dec 2 2003, 06:02 PM
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#18
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
It's not helpful, really, one way or another, but since you ask:
I do want to note that I'm not making an argument for crash tests in canon. It'd be a house rule. |
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Dec 2 2003, 06:05 PM
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#19
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
It is still easy to interpret it the way I have in my games. Sure, they don't take stun damage because they have nothing to stun, but that doesn't mean Stun damage (notice the change in capitalization) doesn't affect it. The vehicle just takes it as regular damage.
But I understand others who might choose to ignore it. It's just how I prefer to see it. |
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Dec 2 2003, 06:07 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 22-October 03 Member No.: 5,757 |
Vehicles don't take stun damage at all. They ignore it completely. Rather oddly in my opinon.
I'd say if your car takes D stun from a gel round apply a L wound to the car. A gel round would break a window or dent a panel, but it wouldn't penetrate the vheical and actually harm something important unless you had a gaping hole in the armor already :) |
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Dec 2 2003, 06:14 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 4-September 03 Member No.: 5,581 |
Agreed. It's hard to bruise a car.
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Dec 2 2003, 06:16 PM
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#22
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Which is why I'd probably not do real damage to a vehicle from stun rounds, but would likely call for a crash test in certain situations. Take a guy on a motorcycle that gets nailed with a gel round. Does the motorcycle break down (well, realisticly, it might, but probably not)? It's more likely that the guy on the motorcycle gets knocked to the side a bit as his vehicle takes the impact. The same thing for flying drones.
Thus the crash test to see if the sudden jerk sends them into a wall, etc. |
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Dec 2 2003, 06:46 PM
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#23
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
The kinetic energy from that is negligable. It's roughly the same as the recoul felt by the person firing the gun. That's not a sudden jerk at all, especually to a drobe that probably weights a hundred kilos or so. That's like saying they should roll a crash test from the recoil of firing a heavy pistol on a weapon mount without any recoil comp.
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Dec 2 2003, 07:05 PM
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#24
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Whereas a character that weighs a hundred kilos or so can potentially be knocked back several meters. :P |
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Dec 2 2003, 08:24 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 124 Joined: 21-November 03 Member No.: 5,837 |
The way I see it...if you stage up a baseball bat or gel round shot high enough, you will do REAL damage anyway. So why worry about anything else. If the car takes physical, viola...if you didn't stage it up far enough, then the shot sucked...the bat didn't hit hard enough...etc.
Otherwise I would assume only cosmetic damage, that gel may be bad for paint, maybe a mirror knocked off, but nothing worth noting short of atmosphere. |
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