Stun rounds vs vehicles Options

[TinkerGnome]

If the katana were being swung full on, that doesn't make sense. Stabbing, though, it does make sense.

[Kagetenshi]

I thought that four or five was supposed to be exceptional worksmanship...

~J

[Shadow]

Yeah but then you Dikote it, and your looking at 10 or 15!

[Tanka]

True katanas were waterfolded about 10,000 times, making them nearly mono-molecular. 10 was the usual quota for a Samurai of high standing. One of those in SR terms would deal about (Str+3)S and take 1/2 of the Impact rating. It would also cost about 100,000 :nuyen: for the real deal. If you dikoted that, it wouldn't take it up a damage level, as you just killed the near mono-molecular edge.

[BitBasher]

tanka, your information about katana manufacture is woefully historically incorrect, but typical.

I'll let someone with more time on their hands than I have at work set you straight.

Anyone?

[Tanka]

Actually, it isn't incorrect. I did quite a few studies on it. Most of the books I read said the same as I. Those that didn't were filled with many other innacuracies, so I threw them out the proverbial window.

[Cain]

Ok, here's the thing. Katanas are designed to cut through flesh, not metal. Fanboy or not, this much is very well recognized; the folding causes micro serrations in the blade edge, increasing the surface area and allowing it to do more cutting damage. Which is fine and dandy if you're cutting through something soft.

When you're going after something hard yet flexible, like metal, you need to puncture it as opposed to cutting it. Puncturing damage depends on how concentrated the force is-- the smaller the surface area, the better your chances of puncturing an object is.

But back to topic-- again, you can use the called shot rules. According to the BBB, the GM can then decide to alter the damage threshold required to harm a vehicle. You can rule that certain types of Stun damage can hurt specific parts of a car.

[Kagetenshi]

Katana are made of steel. Extremely high-quality steel, but still steel. If they were "nearly mono-molecular", the edge would destroy itself the first time it hit bone.

~J

[Tanka]

The sheathe contained a whetstone along the edge to remove anything extra, and it also had to be carried "upside-down" to keep the blade from dropping straight through the sheathe, and any fingers on the sheathe.

[Dende]

Katana(the high quality ones...ie non trinkets, but battle worthy blades) are actually some of the highest tempered steel in the world. Many of the blades were tempered 1000 or more times, making the baldes stonger than any steel in production today, and better than any european weapon at the time, and modern weapons now. True Katana could slice through my 1965 Ford Mustand(steel body, not modern aluminium or plastic, or futuristic lower qaulity high production crap...) like a chainsaw thru cheesecake IN THE RIGHT HANDS. If you hit them imporperly the blade could very easily snap...but if you know what you are doing...my car is gone.

[Kagetenshi]

[Tanka]

I know this sounds very cheap and like a cop-out, but I lost them a couple of reformats back. WinXP fragged me over by making me lose them.

They were basically just portions of real books scanned in as a .jpg. Sadly, as I said, WinXP killed them off because it randomly linked a never used program to the Documents and Settings folder. I uninstalled the program and they all went away.

[Kagetenshi]

I'll take you at your word that you had the sources (just a statement, not implying that I'm doing you a favour by doing so :) ), but that leaves me with my previous opinion: that your sources didn't know what they were talking about.

~J

[Tanka]

I know that I can't disprove or prove my statement without the images that I scanned, so I won't try.

However, yes, bludgeoning with an edged weapon does little to nothing against a vehicle. Thrusting, however, will usually go straight through today's cars. Anything unarmored in 2063 probably has less of a barrier rating than cars today do.

[Kagetenshi]

What do you mean by "straight through"? The hood, roof, etc. tends not to be particularly sturdy on many cars, while punching through the engine block seems a bit less likely. Though I suppose there are all sorts of exposed hoses.

~J

[Austere Emancipa...]

And here I was thinking that a True Katana ™ had to slice right through a fire hydrant or a car engine block. I always wondered how the weaponsmiths got a hold of fire hydrants and car engine blocks back in middle age Japan.

Perhaps some filthy rich fanboy ought to buy himself a few dozen ancient katanas and then hire some "modern samurai" to break 'em all on a car engine block. Or a fire hydrant. Or simply an inch radius steel rod.

Also, funny how them middle age smiths were capable of making swords that are sharper than 2060s monoswords (S+3 S vs S+3 M), and that beat 2060s Dikoted katanas penetration-wise (S+3 ½ armor vs S+4 full armor). Not that I'm doubting you at all, tanka...

[Counting the seconds 'til someone goes off on a huge katana-rant...]

[Tanka]

I mean through what everybody says will withstand a sledgehammer, like the hood. That will, thusly, have a good chance of hitting the block or anything else that is needed for running the car.

[Shadow]

According to bujinathensacademy web, the most you ever folded a katana was 30 times.

[Shadow]

[Kagetenshi]

I'm not sure if it's accurate to say that the curved shape is a coincidence. Katana have wonderful aerodynamic properties as a result of their curve, and I've heard it said that curved blades flat-out cut better than straight blades, so if it's just a side effect of the manufacturing it's a remarkably fortuitous side effect.

~J

[Shadow]

Theres more, I just figured I would keep it short and not rant too much. They kept the blades curved at first (if you read the websites you learn this) because the backside could be reinforced. Since they were only for calvary this was a good thing. But as the sword filtered down they kept it curved cause that was the way they liked them, not because it was particulary better.

A lot of people talk about Katana's like they were magic. I would put a german broadsword, or 16th century english sword made from damascus steel up against anything Japan produced. Assuming equal skill, the english blade would win.

The thing they had that made them better was their training. All Samurai were martial artists. They were professional warriors. Thats all they ever did. Few countries produced that kind of mentality in a class. They worked at their craft 18 hours a day. You never here about english foot soldiers doing that.

This post has been edited by Shadow: Dec 5 2003, 12:31 AM

[moosegod]

That's because English foot soldiers were conscripts.

You saw equal dedication in the knightly class.

[Kurukami]

That seems an accurate observation. I've seen similarly made straight blades -- that is, created by the multiple foldings of the steel, which if I'm not mistaken you can tell by the tiny wavy lines on the flat of the blade -- that had no curve. And cavalry and naval sabers, which at least in the West usually aren't made by the folding method, also have blades which curve similarly to the katana.

[Shadow]

[Austere Emancipa...]

I could only find this on the old forums. Either the Search function there is still a bit odd, or most of the funnier rants are just well hidden.