 Stun rounds vs vehicles |
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 Dec 3 2003, 07:14 AM
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#76
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Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
okay, Joe Average can't. but Joe Average also can't commit suicide with a handgun--Joe Average, in SR, can hardly accomplish crossing the street.
Joe "I Suck at Baseball" Normal, with clubs 2, can bust up an Americar in three or four hits. better? |
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Dec 3 2003, 07:15 AM
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#77
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
The optional overdamage rules are in the combat section of SR3. I don't remember the page number.
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Dec 3 2003, 07:16 AM
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#78
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Nope, not better. He can still only get four successes, then.
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Dec 3 2003, 07:20 AM
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#79
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Joe Average can commit suicide with a handgun, based on a ruling in MitS that states that one can assume a character capable of causing any desired level of damage to themselves.
~J |
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Dec 3 2003, 07:20 AM
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#80
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yeah. four successes. that's D damage, buddy.
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Dec 3 2003, 07:21 AM
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#81
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
D Stun, buddy. The vehicle clinks and nothing Physical is done.
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Dec 3 2003, 07:23 AM
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#82
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
uh, we're on different pages. i'm saying that if Stun weapons deal normal damage to a vehicle, it's unrealistic because Joe Normal can completely destroy a car in 3-4 hits, max.
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Dec 3 2003, 07:24 AM
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#83
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Well, then, my post is null and void.
I do agree with Doc Funk's ruling. Stun weapons take to Physical at one stage lower. Or at least some sort of "Cosmetic" Monitor. After so much abuse, even that goes Physical. |
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Dec 3 2003, 07:27 AM
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#84
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
That's just it, they're BOTH silly, but the book version is less so. The unusual situation where a character takes a bat or pole to a small unarmored drone is one that is easily remedied by saying that yes, you can damage the drone. Allowing all stun to harm vehicles leaves you crippling cars (hell, school buses and garbage trucks!) with fists, flowerpots, frying pans, and wooden nunchaku. It's far more bizarre and ridiculous. |
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Dec 3 2003, 07:35 AM
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#85
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i could buy a penalty-free 'Cosmetic' monitor, but i'd want half a vehicle's body to apply as armor against Stun attacks. in addition to the -1 Level, i mean. and gel rounds would face a further -1 Level adjustment (so, -3 total: -1 for being a vehicle, -1 for doing Stun, -1 because there's no room for Jello in an engine block).
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Dec 3 2003, 07:38 AM
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#86
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
There's an optional rule (somewhere) that could be applied in this situation. That's the one that, IIRC, allows characters to do Physical damage when attacking using Unarmed Combat by taking a TN penalty.
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Dec 3 2003, 07:40 AM
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#87
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
that'd be the Vicious Blowjob. er, That Blows. no, wait.
anyway, it's a maneuver, something like +2 TN and you stage with 4 successes instead of 2. |
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Dec 3 2003, 07:46 AM
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#88
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
I remember reading that somewhere. I think it was CC, but I'm not entirely sure.
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Dec 3 2003, 07:47 AM
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#89
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
it was. check in the melee section. it's not really suited for what we're discussing, because you'd have to invest some points into it (and even more points, if you want to use it with clubs).
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Dec 3 2003, 07:48 AM
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#90
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
No, it's a specific optional rule, which has nothing to do with maneuvers. |
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Dec 3 2003, 07:53 AM
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#91
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
hm. have to look for that.
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Dec 3 2003, 07:54 AM
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#92
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
I skimmed through all of CC and found nothing. Care to specify a page?
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Dec 3 2003, 08:04 AM
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#93
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Joe Average picks up a heavy pistol and shoots the car that's just sort of sitting there. He, remarkably, has a Skill of 3 in Pistols and uses his full Combat Pool on the attack. He scores 3 succeses and the vehicle only scores one. He just did a Moderate wound on the vehicle.
Joe Average then reaches over and picks up a baseball bat so that he can bash the hood of the car that was just sort of stitting next to the other one. He, remarkably, has a Skill of 3 in Clubs and uses his full Combat Pool. He scores 3 successes and the vehicle scores 3 as well (it only had a Power of 4M Stun to begin with, dropped down to 2L). Joe Average doesn't even phase the vehicle. Three more shots with the pistol -- 12 seconds of work -- and the first car is toast, yet he'd have to bash the vehicle repeatedly for an hour just to stand a chance of doing the same. Yep. Pretty insane interpretation of the rules there. I'm sure you'll come back and point to trolls and other mega-strength characters. My only response to that is going to be a big fat "duh." I would hope that the exaggerated strength possessed by trolls and their ilk would be sufficient to bash the living hell out of something as simple as a standard Ford Americar in short order. The same goes for an elephant stomping on one, someone falling on top of one, and etc. Considering it's a game where a single shot from a gun *does* stand a pretty good chance of completely disabling anything but the most heavily armored vehicles (Pistols 6, -2 TN, 6 Combat Pool will net about 10 or so successes, while that poor little Ford Americar has only 3 dice to try and somehow get at least four successes on a TN of 4), and I honestly don't see why some of you are getting so heated over it. I guess only one type of theatrical-inspired damage is acceptable in some people's mind... (And yes, I know my averages are probably a little off; I'm not very good at calculating 'em with dice. But the point still stands.) |
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Dec 3 2003, 08:15 AM
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#94
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
funk, that's wholly realistic. you can not total a vehicle with three or four swings of a baseball bat, in real life. where in the world did you get the idea that you could? even with an hour of bashing, i doubt you could do enough damage to a car to keep it from moving.
the gun thing, hey--at least a bullet has a chance of puncturing the hood in one go. a few lucky bounces around in the engine block, maybe a fuel line, and the car's out of commission. |
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Dec 3 2003, 08:22 AM
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#95
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Uhm. That's what I was saying, MFB. The rules *reflect* that you're going to have trouble bashing a car to "death" even after an hour of bashing.
And along your logic there at the end, the same can be said about me and my sledgehammer (simply because you continue to have trouble with the mental image of a baseball bat). I can slam it into the hood just right and possibly smash a few important engine components, completely putting it out of it's misery. And I'm not even a muscle-bound troll. Hooray for selective suspension of disbelief! |
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Dec 3 2003, 08:24 AM
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#96
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
honestly? i doubt it. i trump your imagination with my dollar spent at a car bashin' back in high school. it was there for six hours, with god knows how many kids and adults paying a buck each for two hits with a 10-lb sledge, and at the end of the day they drove it into the garage.
the book rules reflect that. your rules do not. |
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Dec 3 2003, 08:27 AM
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#97
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
And when it comes down to it, I don't give a flying fuck. The same can be said about people shooting a car with a handgun, yet you have no problem suspending your disbelief for that. The same is true with me the other way around.
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Dec 3 2003, 08:29 AM
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#98
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
no, the same can't be said for shooting a car with a handgun. a bullet punches through the car's body and wreaks havoc in the engine. a sledgehammer puts a massive dent in the body and maybe twists a Thingamabob that sticks up too far.
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Dec 3 2003, 08:33 AM
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#99
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
...and yet cars in the real world often get riddled with tens to hundreds of rounds without being rendered useless even if so riddled by groups of experienced shooters, yet an incompetent boob who only has a basic skill in using one can do it in 4 shots easy. Go figure. And whoa be it if it's shot by an experienced shooter... the car's almost guaranteed to go up in a single shot every time.
Continue to argue all you like. It's obvious we're not going to go anywhere with this. |
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Dec 3 2003, 08:51 AM
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#100
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
I'm sure that has happened, somewhere, some time. But just so we can agree that this is a Real World Fact and not a Movie Fact, could you supply some form of proof? Linkage? I'm an incompetent boob with only basic skill, and I'm pretty sure I could disable an average (parked) sedan in four shots (with a lot of time to aim and all that) with an assault rifle. Not with a pistol though, but that's because SR rules for penetration are fucked up, which has nothing to do with the current discussion. I doubt I could disable a car with a baseball bat even if I had all the time in the world. |
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