weapon focus physical form? Options

[entropysoda]

My reading of the SR4 main book under "weapon focus" was that a “weapon focus� in this game could be a charm(maybe a small amulet?) that affects ALL melee attacks. [SR4 p.190-191].

It varies with magical tradition, but I see this as possible with certain traditions.
I realize this breaks shadowrun "previous edition tradition" but so does a lot in this edition...

Do people agree, or MUST the weapon focus be an actual weapon?

[Kyrn]

Er...if it doesn't I'm going to feel real dumb.
Okay, just reread it and I can't find anything suggesting that it has to be a weapon.
Shit, from the rules it seems a weapon focus adds to all melee attacks the bonded character makes...

[Prime Mover]

Would certainly be more pratical make it a weapon but not seeing anything either to make it otherwise.

[Kagetenshi]

From my reading of it there's an encouragement to, in that if it is you can use its damage on the astral instead of your normal damage, but no requirement.

~J

[jago668]

Well there is the line on page 192 that says, "Making an attack with a weapon focus in astral space relies on the character's Willpower + Astral Combat dice pool..." So it could read as you have to attack with the focus itself.

[ixombie]

I think the failure to specify is just a booboo. You could go ahead and play it otherwise, but I don't think they meant to change how weapon foci work.

[jago668]

Well they did change the way power foci worked, and in SR3 the weapon focus entry does specify melee weapons. So I dunno, while you would think it would have to be a weapon it does not say that.

[Stahlseele]

a power ring that can generate a variety of effects, sustained purely by the ring wearer's strength of will. The greater the user's willpower, the more effective the ring. The limits of the power ring's abilities are not clearly defined and it has been referred to as "the most powerful weapon in the universe" on more than one occasion. Across the years, the ring has been shown capable of accomplishing anything within the imagination of the ring bearer.

In brightest day, in blackest night,

No evil shall escape my sight

Let those who worship evil's might,

Beware my power...Green Lantern's light!

[BFaolan]

I didn't require that it be a weapon - two of the characters that have showed up in games I'm involved have been unarmed adepts, so that would have been hard.
I did require it to be at least something they were hitting the target with.
(In the most recent case, an unarmed fighter wears it as a tight bracelet around her wrist)

[KCKitsune]

This is one of those times that you have to take the name of the foci and use that as to what it is. A weapon is something to do harm to another being. Sure I could bash you with my amulet, but I would much rather brain you with my club or stab you with my sword.

[Kagetenshi]

Following that logic, a spell focus should be a spell (somehow), a spirit focus should be a spirit, and a power focus should somehow be work divided by time.

I don't think that's a very useful approach.

~J

[Kyoto Kid]

...however, if it applies to all attacks, than Killing Hands is pretty useless. Now if you use the chain from your magic amulet as a garrote, then yes I could see it, but no Power Pasties please. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[Stahlseele]

wouldn't the weapon focus also add to killing hands? O.o
and by this description one can actually make a green lantern in SR . . how is that EVER wrong for nerds/geeks? *g*

[Konsaki]

wouldn't the weapon focus also add to killing hands? O.o
and by this description one can actually make a green lantern in SR . . how is that EVER wrong for nerds/geeks? *g*

Killing hands by itself doesnt have any added damage. Killing hands just changes the standard unarmed attack from stun to physical damage.
On that note, KK is right for the fact that an Adept could save .5 PP by just buying a R1 weapon focus, say as a set of gloves, at chargen. Right off the bat, you get physical damage since you are attacking with the focus and not your own unassisted fists.

Now, you have to take note that Killing Hands can not be taken from you, barring essense loss or increased background count, while the focus can be stolen, lost, broken, etc. So it's a tossup of; do you save that .5 PP or use the .5 PP on something that can't be taken from you?

[ixombie]

HAH! I found it! I'm a fantastic rules lawyer! And I should be, because I'm in law school (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Weapon foci require a Complex Action to
use like any other melee weapon.

That clearly implies that the weapon focus is a melee weapon, since it says that they work like other melee weapons.

Still, one would have hoped for something more than an implication... That's all I need to see to convince me to stick with tradition though.

[Particle_Beam]

Well, in theory, improvised melee weapons also count as melee weapons. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

A broken beer bottle weapon focus would work like a dagger, with all the penalty of using a broken beer bottle in melee combat, and all the advantages of it being a weapon focus. But really, who would be so silly to turn a broken beer bottle into a weapon focus anyway? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Stahlseele]

and there are also meele weapons wielded in unarmed combat, like golves and the such, where do they fit in?

[Fortune]

and there are also meele weapons wielded in unarmed combat, like golves and the such, where do they fit in?

Hardliner gloves are weapons that enhance unarmed combat. As such, there is no reason why they cannot be enchanted as Weapon Foci (as could brass knuckles and the like).

[Glyph]

In addition to the quote ixombie provided, the cost of a weapon focus is based in part on weapon reach, talks about making attacks with a weapon focus, and states that the damage of the weapon is the same on the astral plane and the physical world. I think the rules make it abundantly clear that a weapon focus is, in fact, a weapon.

There is nothing stopping someone from enchanting a glove or gauntlet as a weapon focus, although it would be questionable which of the adept unarmed powers would stack with it - killing hands, doubtful; critical strike, maybe.

[ixombie]

In addition to the quote ixombie provided, the cost of a weapon focus is based in part on weapon reach, talks about making attacks with a weapon focus, and states that the damage of the weapon is the same on the astral plane and the physical world. I think the rules make it abundantly clear that a weapon focus is, in fact, a weapon.

Actually, the cost thing is not true in SR4. Which is part of why the ambiguous writing is so confusing. Most SR4 players have played SR3 I think, so they didn't even notice that the rules could be read any other way. And that's probably how the devs were thinking when proofreading it... If they even did (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)

[Glyph]

Sorry, should have been more clear. I meant the bonding cost (table, pg. 191).

[ixombie]

OMFG! Literally all of the rules that make it clear that weapon foci are actually supposed to be weapons are on the same page. And yet no single person noticed all of them on their own.

[Ancient History]

Critical glitch on a teamwork test? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[ixombie]

No just a regular glitch. A critical glitch would have degenerated into a flame war, possibly culminating in a few RL suicides and a big media circus, and proposed federal legislation to shut down Dumpshock and ban Shadowrun, which could only be avoided by a collective burning of edge by all of us. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Kyrn]

Couldn't that also be the result of one party's successful roll?