? on Full Defense Options

[Volarium]

Confusing myself at the moment on full defense, mainly with the differance between Dodge and Gymnastic Dodge skill involvement. With melee full defense would it be Reaction + gymnastic dodge + dodge or would it be Reaction + gymnastic dodge + gymnastic dodge.

Thank you

[Glyph]

According to the FAQ, it is the former.

[Cthulhudreams]

Reaction + gymnastic dodge + Melee Combat skill, as per FAQ yeah.

[Sir_Psycho]

So to discuss, doesn't this mean that as long as you have Gymnastics threre's really no need for a Dodge skill?

[Cthulhudreams]

No, You either need dodge, OR melee skill(s) AND gymnastics.

Ie You need D OR (M ^ G)

[Sir_Psycho]

Not if defending against a ranged attack. Then it's just Gymnastics + Reaction.

What exactly is the dice pool used in the Full Defense option Gymnastic Dodge (p. 151, SR4)?

Against ranged attacks, it would be Reaction + Gymnastics. Against melee attacks, it would be Reaction + Dodge + Gymnastics or Reaction + melee skill + Gymnastics.

What I don't understand is that you use a dice pool of two skills + an attribute. Isn't that out of the rules?

[Ryu]

According to the FAQ, it is the former.

Straight out contradicting RAW, Full Defense against Melee attacks, pg. 151(german). Explicit pool: Reaction + 2*Gymnastics. (Hmm, didn´t catch that FAQ error, and I had given it a once-over for errors recently.)

[KurenaiYami]

Not if defending against a ranged attack. Then it's just Gymnastics + Reaction.



What I don't understand is that you use a dice pool of two skills + an attribute. Isn't that out of the rules?

Yes and no. It's an exception to the rules. How else would you quantify focusing on dodging for the entire initiative pass?

I mean, a flat dice pool modifier could work, but I'd like to think that some people could get better at it, so a skill helps.

[FrankTrollman]

Straight out contradicting RAW, Full Defense against Melee attacks, pg. 151(german). Explicit pool: Reaction + 2*Gymnastics. (Hmm, didn´t catch that FAQ error, and I had given it a once-over for errors recently.)

If the German version says that, it is a translation error. The original text says that Full Defense adds your Gymnastics (or Dodge, or Melee Skill) to your Defense Pool (once). The original Defense Pool against melee attacks is Reaction + (Dodge or Melee skill) as depicted on page 147.

The FAQ is not in error, the German version may be in error or you may be reading it incorrectly. I don't know because I don't have a German copy to check.

-Frank

[Ryu]

Adding a second skill, or one skill twice for that matter, is not the base mechanic. It is OTOH fully within the rules. One could minmax that, but it is only melee full defense. Once you´ve got a high athletics (and therefore gymnastics) skill going, you should be using all your actions offensivly.

[Glyph]

So to discuss, doesn't this mean that as long as you have Gymnastics threre's really no need for a Dodge skill?

It depends.

For melee, you can only use it for full defense, not regular defense, and even for full defense, you won't be as good at it unless you have a dodge or melee skill to add to your gymnastics.

For ranged combat, gymnastics is just as good as dodge for full defense, and neither skill is used for regular defense.


So, basically, gymnastics is only really good against ranged attacks, so it is only a viable choice if you also have a melee skill to defend with.