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> Buying a host, Is it possible?
Lilt
post Dec 2 2003, 10:30 PM
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Anybody know how much it'd cost to get my very own Red-12 host? Also: How large is a host? Is it possible to steal one?
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 2 2003, 11:01 PM
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I'd personally say that a Host is probably akin to a modern-day server room. So yes, you can steal one if you've got a few trucks, a group of friends, and some hand carts (or Trolls).
As for cost, there's no canon number. I'd say a LOT. There was a thread discussing this a month or two back, IIRC.

~J
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cykotek
post Dec 2 2003, 11:40 PM
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I do know that there is a bit of talking about supercomputers and mainframes in M&M in the Nanotech section. It talks about costs for a computer capable of running the SK and programming the nano-factories.

I believe the old VR 2.0 book had notes in the programming section about how much it cost to rent time on a mainframe or host to do programming. I think there was some small mention about purchasing as well, but don't quote me.

I'd provide page numbers and such, but a friend is borrowing M&M, and I can't find VR 2.0 right now.
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Game2BHappy
post Dec 2 2003, 11:42 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
There was a thread discussing this a month or two back, IIRC.

Indeed.

Some highlights from that thread:
VR2.0 listed Mainframes as 5,000,000 NuYen times their security value.
A couple canon sources mentioned that the "servers" running the host could be located throughout the world, not necessarily at one spot.
Others suggested that much of the costs would be in the necessary support for the mainframes.
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Game2BHappy
post Dec 2 2003, 11:50 PM
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QUOTE (cykotek)
I believe the old VR 2.0 book had notes in the programming section about how much it cost to rent time on a mainframe or host to do programming.


Canon:
pg. 79, Matrix
"The typical charge for one day of programming is equal to the host's Security Value x 100 :nuyen: ."

Non-Canon:
If we did a little creative application of lifestyle rules we could multiply the daily cost for 30 for a monthly cost and then multiply it by 100 to make it permanent as is done with lifestyles.

i.e. a R6 host costs 600 :nuyen: /day, 18,000 :nuyen: /month, or 1,800,000 :nuyen: for a "permanant lifestyle" of using that mainframe.

[edit]This would only give you a permanent spot to use on someone else's mainframe to act as your own host. You wouldn't necessarily own the mainframe(s).[/edit]
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Velocity
post Dec 3 2003, 12:00 AM
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Y'know--and call me morbid if you like--the first thing I thought of when I read the header for this thread was, "Buy? Don't the bugs usually just take hosts?"
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Lilt
post Dec 3 2003, 12:17 AM
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Ah. Does VR2.0 have anything about how much memory you can expect hosts to have?
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cykotek
post Dec 3 2003, 12:45 AM
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I think that you could assume hosts to have, effectively, an infinate amount of storage memory. Yes, there is a limit, but I think it would be so big as to not matter.
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moosegod
post Dec 3 2003, 12:46 AM
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To the average decker, or even FastJack, probably.
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 3 2003, 12:50 AM
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Once you start getting multiple programs rated 14+ it might be time to start keeping track, but still.

~J
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Shockwave_IIc
post Dec 3 2003, 12:53 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Once you start getting multiple programs rated 14+ it might be time to start keeping track, but still.

~J

So it would be a problem with fast jack then :D :P
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moosegod
post Dec 3 2003, 12:54 AM
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Curse my total lack of decker knowledge and my insistence on posting about things I know nothing about!
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 3 2003, 01:11 AM
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I wonder how many years it's been since FastJack ever had to make a system test against a TN above 2.
Well, probably when he was dealing with the ZOG. Curse those bandwidth restrictions!

~J
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Fortune
post Dec 3 2003, 01:15 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
I wonder how many years it's been since FastJack ever had to make a system test against a TN above 2.

Probably when bitch-slapping Bash.
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Shockwave_IIc
post Dec 3 2003, 01:27 AM
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Hmm he seemed too strain a tinny bit when dealing with the banded Otaku that invaded Shadowland, and even he couldn't stay online when megera went psycho
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 3 2003, 01:38 AM
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Megaera rewrites the rules around her. I don't think she counts.

~J
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mfb
post Dec 3 2003, 02:33 AM
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hosts in my game are about the size of a modern-day desktop. compared to SR's base computers, that's massive, especially when you consider that they really don't need to devote a whole lot of room to cooling systems (optical computing tends to produce much less waste heat). the only thing that might require more space is storage memory--but even then, i really can't see a single host taking up an entire room. now, if you're talking about a host farm, or some kind of Matrixspace service with a ten thousand-count userbase, or the AEP, sure. but not a single host for a single business.
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Shockwave_IIc
post Dec 3 2003, 03:40 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Megaera rewrites the rules around her. I don't think she counts.

~J

Oh i agree totally, I was just pointing out that as good as fast jack is (and he is that good) there are somethings he can't do. Not that the pc's should be able to effect him in that way.

Side note: As a decker dodger ain't that good really. (still a cool character though)
Just waiting for the day my Otaku becomes the Otaku equivalent of fast jack.....
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Kagetenshi
post Dec 3 2003, 03:58 AM
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Dodger is good, but not amazing. He just has the right girlfriend.
But yes, FastJack isn't the be-all-end-all. Well, he is, but it takes a little work ;)

~J
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spotlite
post Oct 10 2005, 02:54 PM
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Yoik - and the ancient thread resurfaces...

I hope I haven't just breached some major netiquette rule here by raising up an old topic like this but... that five million per rating point seems a bit harsh to me - Many MSPs provide a personal blue host for its customers - at a few bucks a month?? maybe for Red Hosts.

Anyone seen any rules (even house rules) for this ANYwhere? Got my own ideas but would like to compare and contrast, as it were.

TiA

Spotlite
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hahnsoo
post Oct 10 2005, 08:59 PM
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QUOTE (spotlite)
Many MSPs provide a personal blue host for its customers - at a few bucks a month?? maybe for Red Hosts.

Probably because they are Blue Host VMs on a much more robust Red or Orange server.
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frostPDP
post Oct 11 2005, 02:49 AM
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Looking at the modern interweb, I would argue that the quality of a host is not necessarily a derivation of its hardware but rather its software. The way I'd do things is to follow the rules for buying a lot of MP of data and suppliment it with some sort of "software cost."

A red level host or, gasp, ultraviolet would require an enormous amount of software to protect the hardware from outside access.
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Westiex
post Oct 11 2005, 06:48 AM
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Blue-4 (Typcial Telecom)
Green-4 (Public Dataterm)

It doesn't give prices, but lets assume a base of 15k. Then lets assume that the next security level up is x2 the previous cost. So ...

Blue - 15k
Green - 30k
Orange - 60k
Red - 120k

QUOTE
VR2.0 listed Mainframes as 5,000,000 NuYen times their security value.


Obviously, you don't need a mainframe to have a host. Not if you assume everyone in a Medium residence or up has one acting as their telecom.

(As a side note, a pernament Luxury lifestyle is 10 million, twice the cost of a basic telecom if you use mainframe prices)

QUOTE
A red level host or, gasp, ultraviolet would require an enormous amount of software to protect the hardware from outside access.


Mainframes are designed for a large amount of users - keep in mind Target Matrix lists KE Seattle (So a branch office) has an Orange level host, which if they had a VR2 mainframe would end up being 15 million.
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nick012000
post Oct 11 2005, 08:59 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Dodger is good, but not amazing. He just has the right girlfriend.

He's also an Immortal Elf.
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Fortune
post Oct 11 2005, 09:51 AM
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Dodger is not an Immortal Elf. He is a Spike Baby, though.
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