Infiltrator optimization, Yet another Character review Options

[ikarius]

Okay, so I've got my character skeleton, and I'd like folks to take a quick look for review.

Race: Human
Special: Adept

Stat:
Body: 3(9)
Agi: 7(9)
Rea: 5(9)
Str: 2(9)
Intu: 4(9)
Logic: 2(9)
Will: 3(9)
Edge: 4(7)
Magic 4(6)


Skills:
Longarms 4
Pistols 3
Perception 4
Athletics 2
Stealth 3
Dodge 3
Specialize Infiltration(urban)

Positive Qualities:
Type O System

Negative Qualities:
Allergy (uncommon, moderate)
Scorched


Adept Powers:
Improved Reflexes 2 ( 3 pp)
Enhanced Perception 2 (.5 pp)
Multitasking (.5 pp)



Cyberware:
Attention Coprocessor 3
Datajack

Bioware
Muscle Toner 2
Enhanced Articulation
Platelet Factories

Gear
Chameleon suit
level 4 Thermal Dampening

Walther MA-2100 (sniper rifle)
+ silencer
+ Imaging Scope w/ image magnification

Ares Predator IV (heavy pistol)
+ silencer


Commlink
Skinlink
Contact Lenses
+smartlink
+ image link
+ vision enhancement(3)

Sunglasses
+ flare compensation
+ thermographic
+ low light

Earbuds (or directly tied to commlink)
+ Audio Enhancement 3
+ Select Sound Filter 3



2x Fake SIN (4)


Add in misc stuff, video camera, audio enhancers (not implanted), etc etc.

Character Highlights:
13 dice to shoot sniper rifle (15 as soon as I specialize - early karma)
12 dice to shoot pistol ( 14 as soon as I specialize)
18 dice on infiltration (urban) visual checks, 14 dice otherwise
13 dice on perception tests, and "Observe in Detail" is a free action, so I will use it all the time in combat.

Clearly, this guy is designed to be a scout. He's designed to avoid detection, and operate as the eyes & ears of the group, while still throwing down some pretty mean damage if he's able to use his sniper rifle.

Comments on survivability/playability/optimization?

[Stahlseele]

even i think that this character is a bit on the munchy side with those negative qualities o.O
and if he is going to be a scout, he'll need some scouting equipment . . Cyber-Eyes and Ears tricked all out for example . .

[jago668]

Just myself I would be taking synaptic boosters rather than the adept improved reflexes. Same benefit for a third of the "cost". At rating 2 it costs one magic point for the bioware, compared to 3 magic points from improved reflexes. That effectively gives you another 2 points to spend on stuff like improved infiltration, traceless walk, and/or wall walking. There is also flexibilty, motion sense, and gliding that could be looked into. Can also negate the need for alot of the fancy goggles/glasses with various improved senses. Which will cut way down on vision modifiers since you currently don't have anything listed for thermographic, low light. Just a suggestion.

[ikarius]

Yeah, I know those negative qualities are a bit muchy. I haven't really decided what neg qualities work best, so they're placeholders until I finish writing up his backstory and find some negs which match up to his background. As far as scouting equipment goes, he'll be using outboard- note the contact lenses & goggles he's already got slated, and figure a microphone + audio processing equipment to do cyberear qualities through his commlink. I just hadn't yet marked them all down. I've currently got 26k nuyen left to spend, nearly certain that will all go to gear (not ware). Backstory, I can do; I'm hoping some more experienced runners can advise me on whether there are important bits I've left off for him to function, things which would make sense to substitute, or optimization recommendations.

On Synaptic Booster; I *could* drop enhanced articulation, and add Synaptic booster 1, and free up 2 power points. That would leave me 13k in the hole instead of 26k remaining to spend on gear.... it's .... maybe just barely possible I could find a way to squeeze that in. If I were to squeeze him that way, ummm, 1 point mystic armor, motion sense & either traceless walk or 4 points of cloaking.... It's a very hard call, as it pulls one die off all physical tests, removes one level of initiative, and cuts my gear budget a ton.

Note: Audio + Video enhancements added to original post.

--Ikarius

[Jhaiisiin]

For infiltrators, I found that making sure they have things like Traceless walk, Improved ability (Infiltration) and having them specialize their unarmed combat in subdual combat ended up working as a wonderful combination. The one time I created an infiltration expert I made sure he was built around non-lethal solutions. As he would say: "Blood is expensive. One dead guard is enough to really piss people off. Data, items and materials are replaceable. After all, just because I stole something for someone, doesn't mean they'll get to keep it. Someone will probably pay someone else to steal it right back. It's harder to steal back a life after you kill someone."

[ikarius]

Subdual- it's what gel rounds are for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Plus I dont have the strength or the armor to stand up in toe-to-toe combat, so when stuff goes bad and we've got a combat troll charging, I can be hiding behind a bush shooting him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Jhaiisiin]

Subdual- it's what gel rounds are for (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Plus I dont have the strength or the armor to stand up in toe-to-toe combat, so when stuff goes bad and we've got a combat troll charging, I can be hiding behind a bush shooting him. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Guns make too much noise (yes, I know about silencers), as does the tell-tale thump of a gel-round. Dart pistols are really the way to go, honestly. It's a shame we didn't see them translated into SR4. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

To each their own though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

probably because dart pistol/rifle with gamma scopolamine darts was THE Shit in SR3 . . even Trolls were hard pressed to roll 8 10's to avoid stun damage . . but think of the fun you could have with laes darts in the right environment *g*

[Ryu]

Someone in my group talked about a Type-O adept recently. I´m not convinced so far, I´d say either/or. Even if I loose one point of magic less, 30 BP is a steep price. My vote has to be "loose one of the qualities".

Adepts should never buy Imp. Reflexes at canon prices. The 1/2/3 PP system that was suggested here is much more balanced. So much better in fact that I would vote to errata it into canon.

Ditch the enhanced articulation in favour of synthacardium 3. There are not many physical skills linked to physical attributes, and most profit from synthacardium. In effect, you save 10k and gain 2 dice for climbing, running, and gymnastics.

I´d prefer Firearms 3 over Pistols+Longarms. The ability to shoot straight with an SMG is worth more than the one die on the Sniper Rifle. If you have access to Arsenal, you can replace Type-O with Martial Arts + skill.

[ikarius]

Ryu,
Wow, I can't agree with you on the "balanced" of 1/2/3 PP for adept speed... at that cost you'd see a ton of adepts running around with speed 3 at character creation, which is clearly unbalanced. Perhaps 1.5/2.5/4; That seems a lot more in line with the bio/cyber option, especially with all the routes to reducing essence cost there are.

Looking at it, you're right about enhanced articulation; for me it was a free die to athletics and stealth, both of which I was buying as groups, but then I looked and 2 of the useful skills in stealth aren't even linked to physical skills. Synthacardium 3 it is.

I'm currently reviewing a THOROUGH revamp, dropping Type-O, picking up Synaptic booster 1 (yeah, dropping one IP), and revamping my adept powers significantly. I've got more power points to play with, which rocks, and can fit more 'ware in overall, cause 30 build points back is a lot of extra cash... it's looking quite promising so far.

[Whipstitch]

I think the 1/2/3 PP thing is a bit much, honestly. I'm not sure how else to balance it, sadly, but yeah, 1/2/3 would basically make it a no brainer Power. I'd be more comfortable with something like 1.25 per level; remember that unlike bioware/cyber Increased Reflexes doesn't negatively effect your power rating cap, so even as it stands now taking Increased Reflexes and then working on boosting your magic up to 6 or 7 can make for a pretty decent character if you're looking to pull off a narrow but useful shtick like an Adept with max passes and Power Throw 5-6. At least adding on the extra 0.25 points would require the PC to stay at 4 magic or better while still allowing a fair bit of room for powers if you do choose to go up to 5 or 6 Magic.

[ikarius]

Okay, so here's v2 of the character. No more adept reflexes, dropped 1 IP and went bioware route, dropped Type O, added more 'ware & powers

Stat:
Body: 3(9)
Agi: 7(9)
Rea: 4(9)
Str: 2(9)
Cha: 1(9)
Intu: 4(9)
Logic: 2(9)
Will: 3(9)
Edge: 4(7)
Magic 3(6)


Skills:
Firearms 3
Perception 4
Athletics 2
Stealth 3
Dodge 3
Specialize Infiltration(urban)

Positive Qualities:

Negative Qualities:
Allergy (uncommon, moderate)


Adept Powers:
Mystic armor 1
Enhanced Perception 2 (.5 pp)
Multitasking (.5 pp)
Motion Sense
Magic Sense
Improved Physical Ability (Longarms) 2





Cyberware:
Attention Coprocessor 3
Datajack
Skillwire 3
Skillwire Expert System

Bioware
Synaptic Booster 1
Muscle Toner 2
Synthacardium 3
Platelet Factories

Gear
Chameleon suit
level 4 Thermal Dampening

Walther MA-2100 (sniper rifle)
+ silencer
+ Imaging Scope w/ image magnification

Ares Predator IV (heavy pistol)
+ silencer


Commlink
Skinlink
Contact Lenses
+smartlink
+ image link
+ vision enhancement(3)

Sunglasses
+ flare compensation
+ thermographic
+ low light

Earbuds (or directly tied to commlink)
+ Audio Enhancement 3
+ Select Sound Filter 3



2x Fake SIN (4)

2x rating 3 activesoft (etiquette & Hardware - tentative)


Character Highlights:
14 dice to shoot sniper rifle (16 as soon as I specialize - early karma)
12 dice to shoot pistol ( 14 as soon as I specialize)
17 dice on infiltration (urban) visual checks, 13 dice otherwise
13 dice on perception tests, and "Observe in Detail" is a free action, so I will use it all the time in combat.
7 dice sprinting to get out of trouble, 9 once I specialize

Net result, dropped 1 IP/reaction for a whole lot of additional dice & sensory powers. I'm not 100% sure on magic sense, but I think it would be darn good for knowing if I was about to walk through a ward....

[Jhaiisiin]

For the infiltrator/sniper type, I think this is looking really good. Infiltrator/thief, not so much, which is where my confusion came from originally, as well as my suggestions. Looks pretty good as is though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Magic sense is awesome. Anything magical within X distance (walls or no, as I understand it) gets detected if you roll well enough.

@Stahlseele, I wasn't clear enough, and that's my fault. I meant Narcoject specifically, as that was my infiltrator's weapon of choice during infiltrations in SR3.

[Fortune]

I think the 1/2/3 PP thing is a bit much, honestly. I'm not sure how else to balance it, sadly, but yeah, 1/2/3 would basically make it a no brainer Power.

To be fair, the 1 / 2 / 3 PP change is usually accompanied by a similar change in Essence costs to Wired Reflexes. This goes a long way toward balancing things out.

[Wasabi]

Is it legal to specialize in a skill group at chargen? I had thought that was not legal.

The strength of 2 may limit how much you can carry. GM determined, of course. You may want to not be weaker than the average person if you plan on wearing full suits of armor (Chameleon Suit) and carrying lots of weaponry.

Your body and strength being that low may limit the usefulness of the Athletics group unless you get more dice in it. I'd take the 3 points in Dodge and bump up Athletics by 1 with 2 karma to spare. Then use Gymnastics to Dodge Ranged or Close Combat in a given pass. Its still 3 dice but only versus ranged *OR* close combat. (First rule of being sniper in HTH... no be there!)

I'd also swap out Mystic Armor 1 for Increased Ability (Gymnastics). Its a little spiderman like, but mobility is also needed by snipers. That way they can not only potentially dodge via Gymnastics better they can cling to ceilings better, leap rooftop-to-rooftop better, jump to a flagpole to shimmy down, etc. The more dice you have the more you can use to buy hits for slightly cool tricks. [depending on when your GM lets you buy hits or if you feel confident you can get 1 hit for every 4 dice.]

Magic sense is awesome. Anything magical within X distance (walls or no, as I understand it) gets detected if you roll well enough.

It acts as Detect Magic and Detect Magic can be counterspelled. In the case of an Adept using Magic Sense that has a magic of 3 it can be counterspelled pretty easily. Remember that as a detection spell in mechanics the targets can counterspell each other even if they cant see the sniper.

A single point in Attribute Boost (Agility) can grant a few extra dice long enough for a critical few combat turns to go by. You may or may not take drain but it aids everything that uses Agility while its active.

You may want to get a skinlink for the sunglasses and swap the image link and smart link into them since they need to interact with your pan. By default they have a signal rating of 2 so peripherals like that are easier than a commlink to jam and give away your position when they search for hidden nodes. Snipers need to be able to go dark while in a firing position even if they only choose to do so at critical times for the sake of the team talking to them. You could also get goggles for when you're in a chameleon suit. After all, it uses a hood and covers the eyes presumbly. Get the chameleon suit goggles modded and you can have the skinlink and stuff in your contacts duplicated so you can be discreet when meeting the Johnson and still go dark when covering the objective area.

As a power, Astral Perception is the best friend a sniper can have. You'll take a 2 dice penalty for assensing while shooting but its automatic and LOS where Magic Sense is not. Invisible person being concealed by a spirit with a force 12 Camoflague spell active? Assense them [which isnt hard just to see their brightly glowing form] and then only lose two dice to kill them. Get Adept Centering and initation of 2 and you wont even take THOSE penalties. Ba-DOW!

Lastly, Arsenal has a few things you may be interested in... heavy barrel for the sniper rifle, bigger sniper rifles like the Barrett [although in my mind the auto-smartlinked MA-2100 is the most efficient one avail at chargen], ruthenium coated normal armor [but has to be full suit, so formfitting qualifies as does the jump suit used by couriers. Add ruthenium coated weaponry and you wont have an invisible man holding a visible gun. anti-vehicular ammo in a double magazine is also good... Gel round the live targets and AV the enemy drones with the added -6 AP of the AV ammo. Thats -9 total so most vehiclular armor gets punched through. Subsonic ammo can also be good so a missed shot isnt followed by the crack of the bullet alerting the target to run the heck away. It may still shoot out something in the background alerting them but in my character's last game Subsonic ammo was used against us in the woods which really took advantage of the subsonic ammo's stealthy nature.

[Ryu]

I think the 1/2/3 PP thing is a bit much, honestly. I'm not sure how else to balance it, sadly, but yeah, 1/2/3 would basically make it a no brainer Power. I'd be more comfortable with something like 1.25 per level; remember that unlike bioware/cyber Increased Reflexes doesn't negatively effect your power rating cap, so even as it stands now taking Increased Reflexes and then working on boosting your magic up to 6 or 7 can make for a pretty decent character if you're looking to pull off a narrow but useful shtick like an Adept with max passes and Power Throw 5-6. At least adding on the extra 0.25 points would require the PC to stay at 4 magic or better while still allowing a fair bit of room for powers if you do choose to go up to 5 or 6 Magic.

Most adepts will have it, but most adepts already buy the overpriced version. Yep, many adepts will have 4 IP. For more than half of the soft-maxed PP budget. Fine. Adepts need help IMO.

[JBlades]

You missed the Hardware skill to get past locks and sensors. Need to pick up all the little goodies, too, like a sequencer, maglock passkey, bolt cutters, auto picker (unless you want to go old skool with the lockpicking skill), etc.

EDIT: Just saw the skillsofts, so I guess you got the skill covered.

[jago668]

Is it legal to specialize in a skill group at chargen? I had thought that was not legal.

It is "legal" meaning to say there are no rules specifically forbidding it. Now there is a rule that says you can't specialize a group. So the character would no longer have the skill group with a specialization. It would just be the skills all at the same level, and couldn't be raised as a group again without dropping the specialization(s).

In the faq it says a skill group can be broken at any time provided your GM allows it. It advises that you don't allow it at character generation. The faq is the place that covers the reforming of skill groups.