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> Recruiting: Down in the Gutter - Second Phase, Life in Redmond's Newest Street Gang
HeySparky
post Mar 21 2008, 09:25 PM
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Could someone - a GM or authors - take a pass at assigning Contact levels to the various NPCs?

That'd be GREAT.
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Slipshade
post Mar 21 2008, 09:38 PM
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All

You can pretty much guarantee that any question that starts with:

Can I change...
Can I get more of...
Can I tweek...
Can my character be more special than everyone else... (sorry I just couldn't stop myself (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

or any derivation there of, will be met with a No.
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Slipshade
post Mar 21 2008, 09:40 PM
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Sparky - Hmm, loyalty will differ, but I think figuring out what resources a contact has would be good. Kind of a baseline for each contact and then add the loyalty factor on top of that. Something to think about.
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Neuntöter
post Mar 21 2008, 10:15 PM
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aye, already figured that. I was just asking since i know GMs that rule that as 35 net points instead of overall 35 points.

on a similar note, i do not have a copy of Arsenal yet, but since i read the second pdf preview, is DitG using any of the additional armor rules? In particular stuff like degrading armor and such.
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Spike
post Mar 21 2008, 11:16 PM
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QUOTE (Slipshade @ Mar 21 2008, 12:35 PM) *
Spike - 1st Tier gangs can have contacts with the syndicates, but the gang you would be joining would be 3rd Tier. So the syndicates don't even look at us. Really it helps to think of this game as being the lowest of the low. You wouldn't work for a guy in the vory. You would be working for the friend, of the guy, of the guy, of the guy that thinks he works for the vory. Pretty much any contacts that are directly or even close to directly syndicate connected will be shot down.


Dantic - I looked over your number as well and they look good and jive with what Vegas found. We will past it on up the ladder to WR to look at.



It'd be nice to have an idea what sort of contacts ARE appropriate then. I don't want to make 'yet another' pimp, who's contacts are all hookers.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm not sure where the power level of 'tier 1-3' on gangs comes from so I'm thinking its a book I don't have. I was working from the assumption that the higher level street gangs were more like Organized Crime syndicates in powerlevel, not flunkies of the organized crime, but I'll admit to general ignorance of how it's supposed to be here.

From the sounds of things, at best all my contacts would be restricted to bartenders and streetkids, at which point I could just do without (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Can I just do without? Just a single 1/1 contact?

I'm being silly, of course. Just trying to reconcile my understanding of street gangs and organized crime in low rent communities with the one we'll actually be using. I'll get it right, eventually.
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Dantic
post Mar 21 2008, 11:25 PM
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QUOTE (Spike @ Mar 21 2008, 07:16 PM) *
It'd be nice to have an idea what sort of contacts ARE appropriate then. I don't want to make 'yet another' pimp, who's contacts are all hookers.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm not sure where the power level of 'tier 1-3' on gangs comes from so I'm thinking its a book I don't have. I was working from the assumption that the higher level street gangs were more like Organized Crime syndicates in powerlevel, not flunkies of the organized crime, but I'll admit to general ignorance of how it's supposed to be here.

From the sounds of things, at best all my contacts would be restricted to bartenders and streetkids, at which point I could just do without (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Can I just do without? Just a single 1/1 contact?

I'm being silly, of course. Just trying to reconcile my understanding of street gangs and organized crime in low rent communities with the one we'll actually be using. I'll get it right, eventually.


Just think about modern gangs, We're not "Crips", "Bloods", or "Latin Kings", we are a start up gang, trying to gain control of a few shitty blocks, fighting other gangs trying to control a few shitty blocks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
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Whipstitch
post Mar 21 2008, 11:48 PM
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Well, you could ask about Sailor Beauchamps from the NPC page on the Gutter wiki. He sounds like a friendly sort (honestly, you could write in your background that you know him because he was the competition and there's a good chance you could still count him as a contact-- he's that kinda guy) and while he sounds kinda honest for having a ganger contact, the fact of the matter is he does auto repair in the Barrens and he had to be getting those parts from somewhere, so he seems like a natural fit, although you'd obviously have to talk to staff about what Connection level he'd be. (I'd guess around 2, but I'm no authority.)
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Spike
post Mar 22 2008, 12:19 AM
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QUOTE (Dantic @ Mar 21 2008, 03:25 PM) *
Just think about modern gangs, We're not "Crips", "Bloods", or "LA Kings", we are a start up gang, trying to gain control of a few shitty blocks, fighting other gangs trying to control a few shitty blocks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)



That's what I'm sayin'. The Crips and Bloods are just as powerful, if not more so that the real world mafia, they are on the same power level. They don't have contacts with those groups, at best the negotiate WITH them as equals.

We're some tiny little start up, our contacts will be either just people we know (low contact levels) or people above us (higher level gangs that look at us as a part of their 'turf') which includes various syndics (high contact level).

Anyway, its unimportant, I'm posting the 'completed' character below and will re-write his background a bit more throughly after final approval.

[ Spoiler ]
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HeySparky
post Mar 22 2008, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE (Slipshade @ Mar 21 2008, 04:40 PM) *
Sparky - Hmm, loyalty will differ, but I think figuring out what resources a contact has would be good. Kind of a baseline for each contact and then add the loyalty factor on top of that. Something to think about.


Right. Where I said Contact levels, replace Contact with Connection. That's what I meant. You buy and write up your own Loyalty with the NPCs but have no influence over their Connection level.
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 22 2008, 01:39 AM
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Aw, so noone wants to look at Drip?

I know he's not completely done yet; there's still the matter of IC quotes, prettying up his gear, and his takes on the other gangers, but if there's anything that needs to be changed I'd like to get that out of the way first, if possible.
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Vegas
post Mar 22 2008, 01:50 AM
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@Eyeless

I know it's awesome to get feedback all along the way, but honestly Slip, WR and I don't have time to check and re-check and re-check again CS's and gear and and and... I think you get my point. It's fun enough getting a TON of emails everytime you guys update pages on the wiki (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (so no tweaking after going up for review kids, I see the changes (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

It's the reason we ask for EVERYTHING to be done (Gear, Stats, Background and Takes) all formatted and everything before "submitting" the PC for review. If you have a particular question about any gear/stat combo or potential background landmine, feel free to ask specific questions and we'll do our best to get them answered in a timely manner. If Slip or I don't answer outright (like for gear legality) it's because we're usually conferencing with WR1 off the boards when we all can manage to eek out a few extra minutes to speak to one another since he has the final say on those issues (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Life is beyond insane for WR, Slip's getting busier and has family in town right now and speaking for myself I'm working on a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff for the gang (and other DSF games) while trying to manage the recruiting for the last few of you guys not fully approved (or past the first review hurdle) not to mention trying to run a business and have a life (*gasp* I know, what am I thinking, A life?!?!).

Believe me, we're not forgetting about you... we also need a few extra minutes to digest new rules/mods/qualities brought about via Augmentation and Arsenal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) A few of which you threw at us in a "curve ball" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Not foreseeing any problems if the character and gear stick to the rules/chargen guidelines we have established or doesn't break the "rational" litmus test (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The only thing I noticed in specific (I haven't gotten to the drones/vehicle stuff yet in detail, but a quick glance/check at this point) was that you took the Genecrafted Quality at 10 pts when it's a 5 pt quality. Other than that I haven't really had a chance to sit down with books and check everything over. I really won't do that till he's complete as mentioned above.

Hope that helps.
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 22 2008, 02:08 AM
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QUOTE (Vegas @ Mar 21 2008, 06:50 PM) *
Believe me, we're not forgetting about you... we also need a few extra minutes to digest new rules/mods/qualities brought about via Augmentation and Arsenal (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) A few of which you threw at us in a "curve ball" (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Not foreseeing any problems if the character and gear stick to the rules/chargen guidelines we have established or doesn't break the "rational" litmus test (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The only thing I noticed in specific (I haven't gotten to the drones/vehicle stuff yet in detail, but a quick glance/check at this point) was that you took the Genecrafted Quality at 10 pts when it's a 5 pt quality. Other than that I haven't really had a chance to sit down with books and check everything over. I really won't do that till he's complete as mentioned above.
Er... that's because the one I took was Genetic Heritage, and idiotically switched the names. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) And it's precisely the curveballs that I'm asking for commentary on; the gene one kinda cuts to the core of my character, so it definately needs to be resolved before I get too ahead of myself, and the vehicle one could force me to redistribute all my gear if it doesn't pan out. The rest of the character won't be completed until later this weekend, possibly into next week (I am totally with you on the busy life thing, though I'm not running a business or anything crazy like that; I wish you luck with that!)

QUOTE
Hope that helps.
Oh it does, it does. I just get a little worried that everyone's ignoring me sometimes; I know I can be more than a little pestering sometimes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Dantic
post Mar 22 2008, 02:09 AM
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QUOTE (Vegas @ Mar 21 2008, 09:50 PM) *
@Eyeless

The only thing I noticed in specific (I haven't gotten to the drones/vehicle stuff yet in detail, but a quick glance/check at this point) was that you took the Genecrafted Quality at 10 pts when it's a 5 pt quality.

Hope that helps.


I think he wants Genetic Heritage which is a 10 point quality and does what he describes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

<edit> Yeah you caught that already, post jumped me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 22 2008, 03:14 AM
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I do wish I had the cash left over for the Vegsin mod too; it would be a perfect thing for this type of game.

But it's 12k, even with the 20% discount; I'd have to give up either the car, the commlink, or everything else to pay for it. And, yeah, that ain't happening, if I can help it; the commlink is his livelihood, and the car is just too cool to give up. I hope the ruling doesn't come down against me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh, quick question: since the Doberman has Walker mode, is there really any reason for the car to have a drone rack? Or can it just jump into the back seat? If it can, I think I'll have it do that; it would even sound cooler, especially since Drip treats the thing like a real dog, and not a machine.
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Slipshade
post Mar 22 2008, 04:28 AM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond @ Mar 21 2008, 07:14 PM) *
I do wish I had the cash left over for the Vegsin mod too; it would be a perfect thing for this type of game.

But it's 12k, even with the 20% discount; I'd have to give up either the car, the commlink, or everything else to pay for it. And, yeah, that ain't happening, if I can help it; the commlink is his livelihood, and the car is just too cool to give up. I hope the ruling doesn't come down against me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Oh, quick question: since the Doberman has Walker mode, is there really any reason for the car to have a drone rack? Or can it just jump into the back seat? If it can, I think I'll have it do that; it would even sound cooler, especially since Drip treats the thing like a real dog, and not a machine.



Eyeless - Sorry, we actually are not ignoring you and if we have come off that way then I apologize. Unfortunately a number of things you have inquired about are things that WR1 is going to have to make the call on. As Vegas said, I will be next to useless for the next few days. Not only are the in-laws in town, my wife just got very ill with a stomach virus, so I have to spend all of my extra time entertaining the grandparents.
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Spike
post Mar 22 2008, 04:36 AM
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That's okay, Eyeless, I'm not even at all certain I've been okayed to bring Maus to the game (or at all really), though that could just be that I'm having a hard time parsing how badly I flubbed my first couple PM's, and I've done everything ass backwards (start from the wiki, design character, open PM dialog, find thread, post everything out of order with no idea what I'm doing... yeah, I'm a MASTER of this...) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/twirl.gif)
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Slipshade
post Mar 22 2008, 04:47 AM
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QUOTE (Spike @ Mar 21 2008, 04:16 PM) *
It'd be nice to have an idea what sort of contacts ARE appropriate then. I don't want to make 'yet another' pimp, who's contacts are all hookers.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm not sure where the power level of 'tier 1-3' on gangs comes from so I'm thinking its a book I don't have. I was working from the assumption that the higher level street gangs were more like Organized Crime syndicates in powerlevel, not flunkies of the organized crime, but I'll admit to general ignorance of how it's supposed to be here.

From the sounds of things, at best all my contacts would be restricted to bartenders and streetkids, at which point I could just do without (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Can I just do without? Just a single 1/1 contact?

I'm being silly, of course. Just trying to reconcile my understanding of street gangs and organized crime in low rent communities with the one we'll actually be using. I'll get it right, eventually.


We are a third tier gang which means we don't have syndicate contacts....directly.

Let me see....viable contacts. Bar owner...street kid...prostitutes...drug dealer...street doc...mechanic...member of another gang (have to ok that with WR)...Talismonger...Pimp...priest...thief/conman...low level fixer ("Psst...hey buddy. This just fell of the truck. Give it to ya for 10 nuyen.")...smuggler...corrupt street cop. There are a number of people you can go with, just don't give them an affiliation. WR1 may give them one if he wants, but you probably won't know who they work for until he wants you too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I hope that helps.
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Slipshade
post Mar 22 2008, 04:49 AM
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QUOTE (ES_Sparky @ Mar 21 2008, 05:34 PM) *
Right. Where I said Contact levels, replace Contact with Connection. That's what I meant. You buy and write up your own Loyalty with the NPCs but have no influence over their Connection level.


Sparky - You may very well have the correct term, but I think we are on the same page. I will try to look into it when I get some time.
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 22 2008, 04:50 AM
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Oh don't worry about it. Like I said, it's all just my paranoid insecurity acting up again. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Anyway, back to getting into character! *pulls out reference material*
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Spike
post Mar 22 2008, 07:39 AM
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Okay, since I did things all wonky like in my own inimitable fashion it seems I owe a more complete 'character concept' than the really badly chopped up one I PMed (and good thing, because I had to make significant changes...) and the semi-generic one I posted here with the bad 'hide' tags before the edit.

Thus, I give you the complete Maus*:


And apologies for the length and any presumptions that require correction, I've tried to account for all the comments I've read so far. I expanded the original background for him to include more details and to account for things that came out of the creation process (such as contacts).

[ Spoiler ]
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Neuntöter
post Mar 23 2008, 11:35 AM
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another one of my "May i... , Can i... , Is it possible to..." questions. *coughs*

Is it possible to withheld Bps at the beginning in order to "buy up" a connection later in the game? Or should that be done with Karma?

I decided to use Maximillian Stuckie as a potential later Rp hook. To custom-tailor Will a Actioneer Business Suit "Kingsgate Edition". Or something along those lines.

If he can ever get enough money for that.
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Dantic
post Mar 23 2008, 01:46 PM
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QUOTE (Neuntöter @ Mar 23 2008, 07:35 AM) *
another one of my "May i... , Can i... , Is it possible to..." questions. *coughs*

Is it possible to withheld Bps at the beginning in order to "buy up" a connection later in the game? Or should that be done with Karma?

I decided to use Maximillian Stuckie as a potential later Rp hook. To custom-tailor Will a Actioneer Business Suit "Kingsgate Edition". Or something along those lines.

If he can ever get enough money for that.


I would say why not just buy it anyway and role-play it in later, if it's going to be a new intro I'd guess you're only making him a loyalty of 1 "just biz", of course if you let him tailor make you a suit he might be a little more loyal following the process, since it's what he realy wants to be doing instead of stitching up gangers and gang colors.
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Slipshade
post Mar 23 2008, 09:57 PM
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Unless WR1 says differently - No you can't save BP. I would guess that all contacts after character gen will have to be roleplayed out and have Karma spent on them.
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Vegas
post Mar 23 2008, 10:55 PM
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Actually guys, if you're using existing NPC's (i.e. those on the wiki) as contacts while building characters I'm going to ask you to stop actually.

WR and I had a discussion about it when trying to come up with connection ratings for the various NPC's and the rationale is thus; one, it kinda frustrates us to see you guys "wimp" out so to speak on things like contacts and gimp them from someone else's work and not put the effort other PC's put into their contacts/NPC's and still gain the "benefit" from them. Two and even more importantly, WR's got plans cooking in the wings for some/a lot of those NPC's and it is gonna suck for him to have to scrap them because someone bought "Wally the Beer Guy" up to a Loyalty of 6 or something insane like that. Not saying you can't have RP or interactions with the NPC's, we'd just prefer them NOT to be contacts for PC's in this game.

Basically we'd like to see you guys all come up with your own personal contacts for your PC's. If there's overlap between an existing NPC or PC's contact so be it. There's not just ONE fence in Kingsgate, or a street doc, or whatever. Just as those NPC's are not the ONLY characters in the 'Gate (well duh, right?) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) So don't worry about coming up with something similar to someone in play already, just make contacts that are true to your PC's. That's all we're asking for right now (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Eyeless Blond
post Mar 23 2008, 11:52 PM
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Ahhh... okay. The reason I was considering it was that I thought it would make things simpler for you GMs, so that we didn't all have 2-5 completely different NPCs attached to our names. If it's actually harder on you for us to share contacts, then by all means we'll all have separate ones; that's no problem at all.
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