Recruiting: Down in the Gutter - Second Phase, Life in Redmond's Newest Street Gang Options

[Spike]

The term for it is synaesthesia, and if I knew some reliable legal way to expirence it, I would happily give it a go just for the whoa.

Sadly, it seems to be a random side effect of illegal drugs I've barely even heard of or exotic diseases that generally ruin your life in a not-so-fun way.

And if it weren't for all the addicts in the gang I'd suggest we didn't need more rules that whipstich suggests. You plug in, tune out, and do it at least as often as your addiction demands (at least. I've never heard of an addict that could go a week between regular fixes. A week without seeing pink elephants, sure, but just for his fix? Daily, at least... )

Really, for SIM Porn and Trips and Dreams, you really don't need rules, just IC guidelines... if that. Mood chips you can wear walking around, so maybe they need something (roll Will to go against the specific mood or something idiot simple like that) and P-Fixes... well, I'm inclined to think low level possession rules are sounding pretty keen actually. As long as you don't let the chip climb above a force two or three it shouldn't be too bad....

[Dantic]

Well, the one thing that pops to mind right now is that there really ought to be a mechanical reason for someone to take a BTL, especially the higher-rating ones; otherwise the only time you'll see BTL use is so munchkins can pay 20 nuyen a week for a 5-point Flaw. You'll notice that all the other SR4 drugs do give a mechanical advantage, in order to lure the player (and thus the character) into ever-increasing levels of addiction and dependency.

This is a very rough idea; I don't have my books on hand to cross-reference. But do you think it's a good idea to have it actually make sense to use BTLs?

I shudder at the thought. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Vegas]

By the way, you guys looking for a new player? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I'm looking to play a 10 yr old runaway Tir Tairngire noble kid.

We'd be willing to consider another player. However the "hand holding" that has been going on in this thread to this date is drawing to a close. Really almost any answer to chargen questions can be found in this thread or the original recruiting thread. Specific questions of course will be answered, usually best done by PM'ing the GM or Me or Slipshade.

What we'll need from you is: a couple of paragraphs on the concept the more detail the better. Once we get a better feel for your character concept and idea of their background we'll be able to offer you provisional approval and allow you on the wiki to build your character and complete the various pages before review (Stats, Gear, Background, Takes).

Be advised you are going to have to impress us with the concept and backstory because there are a couple of red flags to the character
1) the age. It really is going to have to go up to at least 13 (late middle school to high school aged characters)
2) the whole Tir Nobility thing has got to be seriously explained as to how he ends up in the Barrens. Plus ALL ties are going to have to be severed to the Tir before and during his run in the Barrens if you REALLY are married to the concept.
3) we're not recruiting for ANY magical characters right now, just a heads up since I know you didn't mention it, but just wanted to be sure that we're all clear (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dantic]

Be advised you are going to have to impress us with the concept and backstory because there are a couple of red flags to the character
1) the age. It really is going to have to go up to at least 13 (late middle school to high school aged characters)

Anybody else seen the story for Dallas where the 12 year old was working as a stripper? Because of the way the local laws are written they can't shut down the club for it either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif) Also, same city, different club, 13 year old prostitutes, but yeah I understand the reasoning for at least 13 years old, since I've been working on Twiggs, came up with another concept for a younger character, hopefully won't have to use it though, that's why Twiggs has starting Edge of 3, hopefully he's a survivor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Jaid]

[edit]meh[/edit]

This post has been edited by Jaid: Mar 30 2008, 12:19 AM

[Eyeless Blond]

So, does anyone else like the idea of giving BTLs actual benefits and drawbacks like other drugs? I think it would make the production side a lot more fun too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Vegas]

Anybody else seen the story for Dallas where the 12 year old was working as a stripper? Because of the way the local laws are written they can't shut down the club for it either. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/question.gif) Also, same city, different club, 13 year old prostitutes, but yeah I understand the reasoning for at least 13 years old, since I've been working on Twiggs, came up with another concept for a younger character, hopefully won't have to use it though, that's why Twiggs has starting Edge of 3, hopefully he's a survivor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

I'm not saying that there aren't 10 year old runaways in the Barrens, or in bunraku parlors, or in the kiddie porn brothel in the 'Gate. What I AM saying however is that in this gang Eyeless is kinda setting the low bar for the age game with a 14 year old. I have a little problem seeing older teenagers/young 20-somethings wanting to play "babysitter" for a 10 year old (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Unless said 10 year old was some kind of impressive wiz-kid (literally) or brought something absolutely needed to the table, what would be the purpose of keeping another mouth to feed around... save for a nice shield when the bullets start flying (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I mean when was the last time you wanted to hang out with your much younger sibling?

Keep in mind the above is more from a personal standpoint than a GM'esque standpoint, but I can tell you the age thing caught EVERYONE's eye when we discussed it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Vegas]

So, does anyone else like the idea of giving BTLs actual benefits and drawbacks like other drugs? I think it would make the production side a lot more fun too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I do like the idea of reasonable benefits and drawbacks to them beyond the 'escapist' or 'puppet' aspects of them. Especially since the books to talk about how BTL's are replacing the street drugs for a "quick fix"...

Honestly for P-Fixes I think the downside is that they suffer at least Disorientation (p. 245 BBB) for a certain amount of time post use dependent on how long the chip had been in play as they come back to their senses and back to their real selves.

I'm up to my eyeballs in getting stuff together for you guys right now and prepping a new character of my own on the sidelines so I don't honestly have more than that right now... but it was the first thing that popped into my head as the discussion started...

[WinterRat1]

Jaid - This is not a rules discussion thread. This is a thread for the purpose of recruiting players interested in playing a specific game. You have already established you are not interested in playing this game. Therefore, please refrain from commenting on whatever we do or do not do because it no longer concerns you.

If you are interested in discussing the issue in more depth, by all means start up a thread in the Shadowrun forum. Regardless, please do not continue to clutter up our thread with your opinions, which frankly are irrelevant, given your lack of participation in the game in which we plan on using these rules. Thank you.

Eyeless - I actually really like the idea of giving BTLs concrete benefits and drawbacks like other drugs. It makes their usage more material to the game as a whole. I would like the proposed BTL rules to move forward under that premise. Note there doesn't necessarily have to be benefits; some of the drugs (IIRC) have only drawbacks, and their 'benefits' are primarily fluff, in describing a feel-good or high.

[Dantic]

you are discussing what are essentially build and repair rules, and you commented that there should be a build/repair item for what you wanted to do specifically. now you *could* go and invent some new rules whole-cloth, or you can just use the rules that already exist.

we already know that other skills (for example, the biotech group) make use of the kit/shop/facility method. what reason do you have to suppose that software skills used for B/R type tests *shouldn't* operate on the exact same, already-existing principle?

I don't want to get into another extended debate here, so I'll say this as my last response here. Primarily the reason to suppose is because of how coding your own programs has worked in the past, I realize that SR4 is different, but some things were just better developed in the past.
It doesn't make much sense from a game balance perspective for your Hacker who is running his tweaked out comlink for max effect, that cost him over 25,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to build, to jump on to a 5,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) tortoise (kit) to crank out his programs, especially when he could be in VR getting a +2 to his actions for running hot sim.
In the BBB (SR4), it is not mentioned under the Software skills description that the proper tools are needed, unlike most other technical skills, which specify so, this suggest that you do your software coding directly onto your comlink. It also mentions that specialized tools or unusual parts may need to be acquired separately. (ie. The Specialized Edit Program) As always you are free to do as you wish, but I don't see you getting away with paying 5,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to get a programing suit that let's you start cranking out rating 6 programs that you could sell to hackers for large loot, let alone let you start mass manufacturing BTLs with it.

So, does anyone else like the idea of giving BTLs actual benefits and drawbacks like other drugs? I think it would make the production side a lot more fun too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I don't like this idea, I think if people start abusing their neg qualities, then IC repercussions should be applied, similar to what happens with ignoring social skills, but I don't like adding game effects to BTLs, though I have no real issue with people suffering from Disorientation after un-plugging, but that's just me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

<EDIT> I wrote this post before realizing that WR had already weighed in on the subject, but you got my two (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) worth anyway, and I'll still be glad to contribute to the process, including coming up with benifits/drawbacks on BTLs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

[WinterRat1]

I don't like this idea, I think if people start abusing their neg qualities, then IC repercussions should be applied, similar to what happens with ignoring social skills, but I don't like adding game effects to BTLs, though I have no real issue with people suffering from Disorientation after un-plugging, but that's just me.

I don't view it as abusing negative qualities; drugs have benefits and drawbacks, but the real negative of the quality is the Addiction.

So I view BTLs as being a similar circumstance, where there would be potential benefits/drawbacks, but ultimately they don't really matter because your real problem (and true source of your nearly inevitable downfall) is the Addiction to using them that will eventually destroy you.

[Spike]

Sigh.

As requested, Maus is just a little less impressive on first meeting, but he's a slightly bigger badass in combat.

Sigh.

Oh, BTLs... yeah... um... nah, I got nothin'.

[Eyeless Blond]

Heh, though not as quickly as in SR3; at least here you have a hope of getting clean. In SR3 your first smoke pretty much doomed you within a month or two. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

WR's note that we're cluttering the recruitment thread is very apt, and really applies to more than just Jaid. Adding all of these rules discussions is causing us to ignore new players, trying to get in on the action. We need to move the rules discussions over to another thread...

Specifically this thread: Gutter Rules Discussions

Also, in response to a PM discussion, I've also started another thread that some of you fellow gutter trash ought to be interested in. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Slipshade]

Eyeless - Thanks for creating those discussion threads. I know we (WR1, Vegas and I will) will not be able to keep track of those threads and everything else, so I would suggest that when you have a concrete set of rules that you all feel are good, you PM WR1 with them.

Same probably goes for the Brickhouse Boys.

Thanks again. Now back to the task at hand....Character Development!

[Eyeless Blond]

Hm. I'm calling my Doberman "Red", my primary commlink "Shadow", and my backup commlink "Buster."

What would be a good dog name for a GIANT WHEEL? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Vegas]

Duh... ROVER! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Eyeless Blond]

Oh, duh! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Hm, but now I'm tempted to stat up a mechanized pogostick so I have a good candidate for "Tigger". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Vegas]

Oh god... you have to do that in game... scavenge the pieces/parts and put it together while holding a conversation with a toaster or microwave (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Spike]

Just out of curiousity: any idea when Drip and the other new guys will populate on the wiki? The takes page? I ask because I noticed the change to add Alex to the template, but otherwise have no visibility on him. Should I be prodding... who is it? Eyeless? to go through the steps to get Drip on the wiki? I mean, as a fellow Brickhouser...

Given that I'm having to correct more typos than not, I really need to see to this internet is more important than sleep addiction I've got going on... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sleepy.gif)

[Vegas]

Spike

You guys can add Drip to your takes pages on your own too.. I can't ALWAYS get EVERY new character added to everyone elses takes pages each and every time. Right now I've already added a number of new characters (nearly 7) to 13 existing sheets and updating the new guys with the newer guys that have come afterwards.

It's completely possible that I miss a sheet every now and then, I'm human not a machine or an AI (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I may get around to adding them to people's takes pages, but it's a big task when there are a lot to add.. so if you beat me to it, so be it. I can always format the take to match the others later, but it shouldn't be too hard for you guys to figure out. if you can't do the linking, I can always do that.

[Vegas]

OK. I couldn't sleep tonight (as evidenced by the fact that I'm still logged in and posting) so I added all the new potential PC's to people's takes pages. I HOPE I got everyone, but I'm not making any promises right now. I'm a little loopy but still can't seem to fall asleep.

[Spike]

you are talking to someone who managed to wipe out their own takes page with a single mouseclick... but I'll see what I can do...

[Eyeless Blond]

Okay, mechanics side of Drip (Main/Gear) are complete. Still working on the Background and Takes, as these will depend on what the lot of us Brickhousers end up with for our feeder gang, but I don't anticipate anything already posted to change.

And yes, I did in fact name all of my major electronics, with dog names. I found a good site for them, so I fully intend to name every major appliance and vehicle in the ganger HQ at some point. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Vegas]

you are talking to someone who managed to wipe out their own takes page with a single mouseclick... but I'll see what I can do...

as long as a page gets *saved* we can revert it back. I can't do anything if you do a bunch of work but don't save and it goes bye bye into the digital ether (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[lkim]

Ok, here's the bit of stat I would give to BTL.

[ Spoiler ]

Dream Chip (Rate 1-6)

Duration: 20 Min. x Rate
Effect: Put user in dreamlike state, where he can become anyone. Hero, criminal on the run, hot stud banging sexy elf, or whoever its in the program.
Side effect: User of Dream Chips are mostly unaware of their surrounding, even with RAS override feature disabled.
After effect: When Dream Chips are in use, users seems to be in rest or sleeping like state, they are not. Because of BTL's false signal to the brain, brain actually believes it's own body is active/moving. This makes the user feels fatigue, fear, or aroused depend on what program was running.
Price: Rate x 60
Availability: Rating + 1
Note: User may actively change their POV. Number of POV = Rate x 2

Trip Chip (Rate 1-6)

Duration: 10 Min. x Rate
Effect: Let user flooded with interesting visual (seeing everything in double, only seeing in one or two color), auditory (hearing user's own heart beat, or rushing of blood around body), tactile (feels every touch to be ecstasy), taste (everything you eat taste like chocolates or raw egg), and olfactory (smell of roses all around you where ever you go) sensations.
Side effect: While user is in the effect of Trip Chip, it makes them hard to perceive through that sense or senses.
After effect: After Trip Chip run its course, user is almost impossible to use that sense for periods of time equal to the duration.
Price: Rate x 40
Availability: Rating
Note: Each rating add additional sense in its program. At rate 6, however, it changes users sense like "see" the smell, "feel" the hearing, or "hear" the taste.

Mood Chip (Rate 1-6)

Duration: 30 Min. x Rate
Effect: User of Mood Chip feels what was recorded in the program. This can be range from euphoria to sexual urges to aggressive tendencies, and to dark feelings such as terror and hate.
Side effect: When user is in effect of Mood Chip, it is hard for user to feel other emotions. Example might be user feels sexual urges in the forensic lab while cutting the body open.
After effect: When Mood Chip run its course, user feels opposite feeling for the duration of time equal to the duration of Mood Chip.
Price: Rate x 50
Availability: Rating - 1
Note: Each rating of Mood Chip may add another emotion at the same time or have second course of different emotion, which in that case, opposite feeling comes in order.

P-Fix (Rate 1-6)

Duration: 30 Min. x Rate
Effect: User of P-fix become someone else, giving them the appropriate skills to become that person.
Side effect: While under the influence of the P-fix, user are not allow to use their own skills or knowledge.
After effect: When P-fix run its course, user of P-fix feels as if their body isn't theirs. User feels disoriented.
Price: Rate x 100
Availability: Rate + 2
Note: Every rate of P-fix gives number of active skills equal to Rate/2 at (Rate-2) skill rate Min. 1. It also gives user number of Knowledge skills equal to Rate at (Rate-1) skill rate Min. 1.

And this is stat of BTL, with advantage and disadvantage.

[ Spoiler ]

Dream Chip (Rate 1-6)

Duration: 20 Min. x Rate
Effect: Put user in dreamlike state, where he can become anyone. Hero, criminal on the run, hot stud banging sexy elf, or whoever its in the program.
Side effect: User of Dream Chips are mostly unaware of their surrounding, even with RAS override feature disabled.
After effect: When Dream Chips are in use, users seems to be in rest or sleeping like state, they are not. Because of BTL's false signal to the brain, brain actually believes it's own body is active/moving. This makes the user feels fatigue, fear, or aroused depend on what program was running.
Price: Rate x 60
Availability: Rating + 1
Note: User may actively change their POV. Number of POV = Rate x 2

Advantage: Nothing, Dream Chips are just simsenses with jacked up emotion/senses.

Disadvantage: After program runs its course, user feels disoriented.

Trip Chip (Rate 1-6)

Duration: 10 Min. x Rate
Effect: Let user flooded with interesting visual (seeing everything in double, only seeing in one or two color), auditory (hearing user's own heart beat, or rushing of blood around body), tactile (feels every touch to be ecstasy), taste (everything you eat taste like chocolates or raw egg), and olfactory (smell of roses all around you where ever you go) sensations.
Price: Rate x 40
Availability: Rating

Advantage: While under the BTL's influence, user's sense are more accurate/enhanced. Giving them Rate/2 bonus to the appropriate senses.

Disadvantage: After BTL have run its course, user gets negative bonuses to the sense that was enhanced for the duration equal to the duration of BTL.

Mood Chip (Rate 1-6)

Duration: 30 Min. x Rate
Effect: User of Mood Chip feels what was recorded in the program. This can be range from euphoria to sexual urges to aggressive tendencies, and to dark feelings such as terror and hate.
Side effect: When user is in effect of Mood Chip, it is hard for user to feel other emotions. Example might be user feels sexual urges in the forensic lab while cutting the body open.
After effect: When Mood Chip run its course, user feels opposite feeling for the duration of time equal to the duration of Mood Chip.
Price: Rate x 50
Availability: Rating - 1

Advantage: Each Mood Chip gives different bonuses to the user. Example, Red Meanie gives user +1 to all the physical stats and high pain tolerance 3 for the duration of the BTL. White Cool gives user work under the pressure, thus giving them +1 bonus to any tech skills.

Disadvantage: Whatever bonus was given during the BTL's influence, when the effect wears off, user are given negative bonus to the same stat, skill, etc., for the duration equal to the duration of the BTL.

P-Fix (Rate 1-6)

Duration: 30 Min. x Rate
Effect: User of P-fix become someone else, giving them the appropriate skills to become that person.
Side effect: While under the influence of the P-fix, user are not allow to use their own skills or knowledge.
After effect: When P-fix run its course, user of P-fix feels as if their body isn't theirs. User feels disoriented.
Price: Rate x 100
Availability: Rate + 2

Advantage: Every rate of P-fix gives number of active skills equal to Rate/2 at (Rate-2) skill rate Min. 1. It also gives user number of Knowledge skills equal to Rate at (Rate-1) skill rate Min. 1.

Disadvantage: After BTL run its course all the skill user possessed are treated with rating of 1, due to comfortableness of their body/skill.

Comments?