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> How Many Runs per Month
mike_the_fish
post Mar 5 2008, 10:47 AM
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I am just about going to start up a SR campaign using the Shadowrun Missions Adventures, plus some of my own added in between.

How many Shadowruns do your characters usually perform in a given month? I am talking "average" Shadowruns of course, not strange ones that take an extra-long time to resolve. In the past, I usually have maybe 2-3 runs occur each month. Is this normal? How "hungry" are your characters kept?
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the_dunner
post Mar 5 2008, 10:57 AM
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FWIW, Missions is targetted at one run per "in game" week.
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Blade
post Mar 5 2008, 11:44 AM
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It's up to the GM.
You can decide that the jobs are rare or that there are more runners looking for jobs than jobs (hence lower payments as well), or you can decide the opposite.

You can decide that runners need to wait 1 month for each run to "cool down" before getting a new job, or you can decide that the corps won't bother looking for them.

Just be careful because that choice will have a big impact on the game. As I said, less runs can mean a lower pay and will also mean that the players will have more rent to pay between each run. This will also mean that the runner will spend a great deal of time doing something else than shadowrunning (training, side jobs or just living their daily life).
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paws2sky
post Mar 5 2008, 02:06 PM
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When I'm GMing (which is most of the time these days), I plan for the runners to pull 3-4 runs per month. If the characters require downtime to heal, upgrade gear, or whatever, I'll let them have it. They can always turn down jobs.

In the past, I've had GMs who planned for one run a month, maybe two, but the payouts were very large. Like, 50,000 and up, per person. Of course, in that campaign there was a finite number of "real" shadowrunners in the Seattle 'plex (~90 at campaign start, ~60 by the end). As time went on and the population went down, we started getting better pay.
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deek
post Mar 5 2008, 04:31 PM
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Yup, I'm usually doing 3-4 runs a month for our group. And if they want downtime, they better have the money saved up to handle their lifestyle...

I'll sprinkle in a big run from time to time, but that is really just giving them a tougher challenge, more objectives or whatever, for a bigger payoff...it may still only be in the timeframe of one week... I just keep tabs on my players, what they are looking to upgrade, buy or do, and plan accordingly.
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fatal2ty
post Mar 5 2008, 04:55 PM
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The group I run kind of has a timeline and like to keep them going, the past 4 sessions we have played takes place within a 2-3 day timeframe in game, the runs tend to connect to each other and they face responsibility for their actions shortly after a run.

for example, we recently ran the On the Run campain as we hadn't done it before. During the first session it got late so they unanimously voted to give darius the disc as soon as they got it, because of that I engineered the campain so that Jetblack sent some groups after them to recover the disk, upon realising that they didn't have it, he became a johnson and contracted them to infiltrate darius' house to recover the disc.

all this took place over 4 sessions, but In game only took about 2-3 days.

For this to work I've had to drop payment on their runs so they won't be able to afford a luxury lifestyle at the end of the month, but I feel its played more realistic. A corp or offended person isn't going to wait 2 weeks to come after you, they're gonna get on it quickly, 2 of the sessions didn't have a karma or financial benefit for them, it was purely them defending themselves. I did tack a few extra karma on at the end, but the only got as much cash as I beleived they should have(grand total was about 25000 to split among 5 charactors)

IMO, each session shouldn't be a different run, it should tie itself into the previous run, which is why I don't create runs until the last run is done unless I know for a fact that this is the way things have to go. Not every session should benefit the charactors, and I let them figure out how to make side cash on their own with certain restrictions. Anytime my charactors face a heavily cybered group, they're in a hurry after so they wouldn't have time to collect parts to sell, and I have very high thresholds for finding valuable information on a commlink or other system.

I find this works well enough, it keeps the runners poor enough to continue running, prevents them from building super charactors quickly(as theres little time between to spend karma), and forces them to be on their toes, they never know if someone they killed may come back to haunt them
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Earlydawn
post Mar 5 2008, 05:07 PM
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It's totally GM preference. Within the few of the series books I've read, it seems that there's usually a month or so between runs.. most shadowruns do involve fairly high-profile crime, afterall. Hope you have a safehouse!
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MightyM
post Mar 5 2008, 05:25 PM
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After a loooong break from SR, I'm spinning up a new game also, and am wrestling with this question too. Right now I'm thinking 1-2 runs each month depending on how high-profile each run is. I'm thinking to pay out about 2,000-3,000:nuyen: per person on average plus possibly get gear at discounted rates. Of course, it all depends on the run.

Come to think of it, does this seem like a reasonable amount for a job or is it a bit low? I'm terrified of handing out too much cash up front and watching the campaign go munchkin on me, so I may be low-balling things a bit.
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deek
post Mar 5 2008, 06:46 PM
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Depending on a job, its a bit low. I might start the first run in the 2-3,000 range, but after that, I try not to go below 5,000 per person.
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DTFarstar
post Mar 5 2008, 07:05 PM
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Keep in mind that 2 runs a month at 3,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) or 3 runs a month at 2,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) is barely enough for medium lifestyle if you buy nothing else and only use your excess for run expenses.

Chris
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BRodda
post Mar 5 2008, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE (mike_the_fish @ Mar 5 2008, 05:47 AM) *
I am just about going to start up a SR campaign using the Shadowrun Missions Adventures, plus some of my own added in between.

How many Shadowruns do your characters usually perform in a given month? I am talking "average" Shadowruns of course, not strange ones that take an extra-long time to resolve. In the past, I usually have maybe 2-3 runs occur each month. Is this normal? How "hungry" are your characters kept?


I guess thats the good thing about not depending on Johnsons in our game. We generally have 1 big hiest that that takes a few months to plan; but we have tons of "targets of opertunity". What most people call downtime makes up the huge part of our game. Thats where we are doing leg work, expanding our contacts, and working on our side ventures.

We all try to earn at least as much as 1.5 of our lifestyle costs a month and then our big hauls are when we do big upgrades and invest in our side ventures. So I'd say earn 10K each month and 3-4 times a year a bigger haul of 30-50K each.
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Synner667
post Mar 6 2008, 12:23 AM
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I normally plan for 1-3 small runs per month..
..But the actual number often depends on things like training, healing, buying new gear.

The best runs are the ones where they end up low on cash, low on gear, injured and hating me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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MightyM
post Mar 6 2008, 04:21 AM
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You guys make a good point. Perhaps 6k a month is a bit low for a long-term deal. I think my gut agrees with Synner667 where keeping the group begging for more is a good thing. Of course, I think you'd need to temper that with an occasional windfall to keep the players happy and able to get new toys.

Hearing all the different opinions on this topic is really interesting.
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Cthulhudreams
post Mar 6 2008, 04:43 AM
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You need to talk it out with your players, pay obviously has to vary with lifestyles. A team paying out for 4 high lifestyles a month obviously needs more money from runs than a team paying out for 4 lows. And it's important to keep everyone on the same page, because in your high lifestyle team, if one guy has a low lifestyle, it's going to be an issue at some point.

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Spike
post Mar 6 2008, 05:12 AM
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My thought on the matter is: It depends.

Starting runners, particularly those with few or poorish contacts, earning a few thousand nuyen a run can be running every couple of days. They're gophers for the Fixer, the Johnsons, the Syndics... whomever. They are freelancers, bottom feeders at that point.

If the players wise up, start working their contacts, leveraging their rep and their money and play smart they'll start doing higher paying jobs, but they won't work as often either. Over 5k a runner per run and they might be doing one a month unless they really want to buy something big. Two a month is doable as long as they are slick and fast. At this point, however, their profit margins aren't, or shouldn't be, entirely dependent upon what they get paid. They can live pretty good, but they can't really upgrade at this point. If they are REALLY pros they can easily do a Run a week, which will net them enough for some cyberware or other fancy toys, but they'll have very little downtime or time to cultivate their contacts or make new ones... though their rep will rise quicker... efficency and being busy work wonders.

Now, at some point they'll start earning 20k or more a run per runner. Maybe they'll be smart enough to increase their profit margin by garnering extra pay for expenses, and negotiating for bennies. At this point they'd better start working on Deltaware, initiation and so forth. They'll also only be doing, at most, one run a month. Many runs will take them out of Seattle, out of the country. They won't be able to just breeze through a run, they'll have planning to do, maybe infiltration. They're worth too much to just ask to be pointed at a target and let go. Violence prone runners never make this money. If violent action is the intent, its cheaper to pay off an ork gang with some assault rifles, or even pull out 'munitions'. A corporate facility requiring this level of firepower just for violence is cheaper and more efficently hit with a three tube mortar platoon for the cost of a single runner.

Over 100k runs and they'll be counting 'runs per year'. Its not the planning or legwork necessarily, though a single run might involve a month of prep work for a night of actual running, but the heat and the fact that they can afford an extended vacation to some tropical island resort between runs. Really, once a runner gets this good they are 'retired', and they get offered runs mostly because people will pay that sort of money for 'the best'...

The highest Tier is the million per. Once you start getting payed in two digits with a decimal point (1.2 mil...example), you really should be branching out of actual running. Either that or you are getting tapped for runs that would be suicide for anyone else, and are important enough for someone to pay that. Examples: local yakuza have to kill another runner team for insulting their honor publicly, but are being wiped out faster than they can recover from. The Team would be hired to put down the offending runners and protect the local Yak while they rebuild their assets. At this point other runners are almost garaunteed to be involved in any given run, and the party themselves can afford to hire lesser runners to handle 'easy' portions of the job itself. Not that I expect campaigns to regularly hit this level. One thing to keep in mind if they do is that the runners are both living in the lap of luxury, thus running more becuase they want to/can, and also they are some of the most famous criminals on the planet, and should be as paranoid as they can be. You want the big bucks you have to earn them... entire campaign arcs can be constructed around avoiding legal/political difficulties or what they do with their money (as further upgrading of gear is rather silly when your payday (and again: the money they make should ALWAYS be secondary to other sources of income once they've left the rent money/gopher stage) is more than the average team of runners can start with at creation... per runner. Of course, at this point the Runners won't work but MAYBE once a year, and anything they get hired to do is either going to be incredibly dangerous/difficult or incredibly involved. Involved like becoming 'consultants' in the Yucatan... Dangerous like 'Predator'....
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Synner667
post Mar 6 2008, 08:12 AM
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I mainly agree, Spike.


Generally, the only difference from starter Characters and powerful Characters is better gear, more money, better skills - and that's it.

In reality, as in real life, powerful Characters end up doing other things - training others, acting as consultants, designing/making things, running their own teams, etc..
..But few Players go this route, because they've invested too much in their Characters to let them go, and few GMs can put together a game that is appropriate for them [in effect, SR like many games, only works for low-to-mid level Characters and games].
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Synner667
post Mar 6 2008, 08:12 AM
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I mainly agree, Spike.


Generally, the only difference from starter Characters and powerful Characters is better gear, more money, better skills - and that's it.

In reality, as in real life, powerful Characters end up doing other things - training others, acting as consultants, designing/making things, running their own teams, etc..
..But few Players go this route, because they've invested too much in their Characters to let them go, and few GMs can put together a game that is appropriate for them [in effect, SR like many games, only works for low-to-mid level Characters and games].



EDIT : Hmmm, sorry for the double post - the 'board glitched on me.
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Cardul
post Mar 6 2008, 11:39 AM
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This is my general take:
When you start off, you are going to be doing more, but smaller risk, and thus smaller payout runs. You might be getting only 500 nuyen per person per run, but doing 2 or so an in game week. Now, these are going to be simple runs, like go and pick up this package for the Fixer, go and escort this person for the fixer through a relatively safe area, go body guard this guy who is not in any danger, but for some reason wants to have body guards(maybe to impress someone). These are going to be low risk, low(if any) combat, and little to no Nemawash runs. And, generally, for yur fixer. After a bit, you will start getting runs where you need to do Nemawashi, and these will start to pay more, and be more serious runs. Moving you from picking up a package in, say, Shinjuku to Harijuku, to picking up something in Yokohama and delivering to Chiba, or escorting an Organ Donor to the Bloods. At this point, you are still working more for your fixer(s) then anything else, and are probably getting about 1.5K per run, and maybe getting one of this level run a week. You might still be getting the lesser level runs, too. From there, once yu have enough of these that yu are a "proven assett," the Fixer can start sending you jobs from actual Mr Johnsons/Tanaka-sans, and these are where you start making the money, but, at the same time, you might be starting off doing only one or two of these a month, plus the other lesser level runs. To me, a Runner willing to do a lower level Run for his fixer(s) is actually being alot more professional then the runners who will only look for runs that are bigger and better. It is going to be interesting to see how my GM explains this concept to the newer players in our game starting up this friday(finally! yay!)
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Rajaat99
post Mar 8 2008, 04:36 PM
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Do runs as often as the players think they can handle it. I play downtime, so sometimes my players will go 3 months without a job, just handing their personal affairs.
When my players started out, I kept them very hungry. 5,000 split 7 ways was their first run. Ah, the good 'ol days. Starting out, they shouldn't have a medium lifestyle. Heck, 2 players were sharing a low lifestyle. It was great!
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