Way to keep players from looting corpses?, And I mean CONSTANTLY looting corpses? Options

[Vegetaman]

Every group is unique, and the current group I GM for... We've done about 7 sessions so far, and it's gone really well. The guys all like it, and they seem to be following the rules and not meta-gaming. But the problem I do have is that they always stop to loot the corpses for spare nuyen, clips, and guns. They take EVERYTHING that isn't bolted down. I've tried to remind them that they're Shadowrunners, not common thieves, but they don't seem to hear me. They just duffel bag everything (usually a couple bags worth), throw it in the back of their van, and return to base with it and start calling Fixers and Contacts to pawn it off or add it to their own stash. I keep thinking (and hinting to them) that this will come back to bite them. But I am unsure of how to go about doing this, or whether it'd just be cheap of me and I should let them do this?

I mean, they'll loot weapons from anyone. Not just the random ganger on the street or at their own safehouse, which I don't mind because they're go-gangers. But when it comes to looting an SMG from a Fuchi Security Officer... I have to think to myself "are you SURE you want to do that?". I'd loot clips and nuyen and grenades... But NEVER the firearm. Short of a Panther Assault Cannon, anyway.

Also, as a side note, long time no see everybody. I see my last big batch of posting here was around end of year 2003... So it's been awhile!

In fact, an entire edition of Shadowrun. Though my group is currently still running SR3.

[jmecha]

I KILL IT! WHAT DO I GET?

[DTFarstar]

Stealth tags will end up getting them killed then. The corp they hit can track them from the tags in their employees weapons unless they are in a wi-fi blocked area or they take the time to find all the stealth tags and erase them(Is that ever possible?)

Chris

[jago668]

Well every piece of gear a corp owns is likely to have at least one rfid tag in it. So taking so much stuff they are going to be loaded down with tracking bugs also. Let them roll back to the hideout and have Mr Corp HTR come knocking. Also rather than nail them, have their fixers and contacts get nailed. It'll be tough to do business when nobody will buy from you because they are scared of getting arrested or killed. This can add in with making jobs tougher as they get bad rep.

Then there is the usual where Johnson pays them to go in quiet and come out the same way. No footprints. You start stealing gear that is a footprint, and you don't get paid.

[ArkonC]

Every group is unique, and the current group I GM for... We've done about 7 sessions so far, and it's gone really well. The guys all like it, and they seem to be following the rules and not meta-gaming. But the problem I do have is that they always stop to loot the corpses for spare nuyen, clips, and guns. They take EVERYTHING that isn't bolted down. I've tried to remind them that they're Shadowrunners, not common thieves, but they don't seem to hear me. They just duffel bag everything (usually a couple bags worth), throw it in the back of their van, and return to base with it and start calling Fixers and Contacts to pawn it off or add it to their own stash. I keep thinking (and hinting to them) that this will come back to bite them. But I am unsure of how to go about doing this, or whether it'd just be cheap of me and I should let them do this?

I mean, they'll loot weapons from anyone. Not just the random ganger on the street or at their own safehouse, which I don't mind because they're go-gangers. But when it comes to looting an SMG from a Fuchi Security Officer... I have to think to myself "are you SURE you want to do that?". I'd loot clips and nuyen and grenades... But NEVER the firearm. Short of a Panther Assault Cannon, anyway.

Also, as a side note, long time no see everybody. I see my last big batch of posting here was around end of year 2003... So it's been awhile!

In fact, an entire edition of Shadowrun. Though my group is currently still running SR3.

It depends largely on the players, maybe they feel they need the extra money, maybe they think the effort is worth the extra money...
Maybe they're just the looting type...
I wouldn't make an effort to try and catch them on common equipment, but it they take things like Panthers, it could be traced back with a lot less effort...
So either they have to make more effort to cover their tracks, or it might just track back to them...
You could also just lower the price they get for stolen items if the characters want to dump them quickly...
And if they hold on to them till they get a decent price, they're sitting on stolen equipment, which can create all sorts of problems...

[kzt]

Are you paying them enough? If not, fix it.

If you are, the location toys in the guards weapons should result in a conga line of airborne strike drones by the time they get to their "secret hideout".

[Vegetaman]

Are you paying them enough? If not, fix it.

If you are, the location toys in the guards weapons should result in a conga line of airborne strike drones by the time they get to their "secret hideout".

I actually think I'm paying them too much. And for what they usually make off of "pirated goods", it's not even enough to live off of. How much can you really get for a dozen Ares Predator pistols, anyway? (Well, a bit of extra money, but still).

But yeah, I figured that big corporations would have tracking chips in their guns. I pretty much intend to send a strike team to their "headquarters" to shake them up a bit. Or the unmanned drone idea, I like that one... Maybe take care of fine assortment of motorcycles.

But every time they gun down a room full of people, they loot the corpses. It just drags the game down and kills the mood. They happen to be sitting on some stolen goods right now, actually. Some pretty nice SMGs from some corporate security guards that got shot up in a nasty getaway attempt (they rushed it, but still took the time to loot the corpses, which almost cost them the mission as the back-up guards showed up).

I've given them enough warning, though. Time for me to drop the proverbial hammer.

[fatal2ty]

I don't give my group time, they want to loot the corpses, but I always throw something at them.

things along the lines of "hearing sirens approaching", "Your Fixer messages you, its urgent", "One of the guys you killed had a cranial bomb set to go off when he dies"

among other things, I rarely let them loot a corpse unless it has storyline value(getting a commlink or something), and when they do try to loot further, I throw in other obstacles like some of those mentioned above.

I also make sure that Organlegging is a serious crime, in fact, there was a couple times a contact who would have paid well for cyberlimbs and bioware where undercover lone star and the group had to fight there way out.

needless to say, my group doesn't loot much anymore

[KCKitsune]

maybe one of the poor slags they just offed had enough time to pull the pin on grenade and roll on top of it. I mean the team's most likely dealing with other things before they start looting... just give 'em a High Explosive ™ Surprise!

[Whipstitch]

The problem I have with the RFID tag everything bit is that it begs the question of why the McGuffin isn't always RFID tagged every time. Like every good GM tool, it's something best used in moderation.

Anyway, as always I'm going to yet again suggest non-violent ways of discouraging this or at least making something interesting out of it rather than suggest you disembowel the PCs (I must be the softest GM on the planet. Aside from the swarms of LMG equipped drones, anyway). Perhaps their Fixer gets annoyed with them for constantly unloading their Mickey Mouse drek off on him all the time. Sure, he's been polite about it up 'till now, but if he's a big time fixer he's probably got a few more cost effective ways of spending his time than arranging to unload hot Predators of the back of a truck for chump change-- I mean, really, he likely makes his money from arranging runs and knowing a guy who knows a guy whose cousin Eddie arranges for crates of this kinda crap changing hands, not by adding a half dozen potentially hot SMGs to his inventory. And if they have to go through less reputable sources than a good Fixer to unload things, well, then it's just that much easier to introduce complications and maybe at least make it so the loot sessions lead to mini-runs later. Just try to keep thinking positive; maybe looting isn't fun as it happens, but if they can't be discouraged maybe you can at least redirect it into something that IS fun.

[apollo124]

But every time they gun down a room full of people, they loot the corpses. It just drags the game down and kills the mood. They happen to be sitting on some stolen goods right now, actually. Some pretty nice SMGs from some corporate security guards that got shot up in a nasty getaway attempt (they rushed it, but still took the time to loot the corpses, which almost cost them the mission as the back-up guards showed up).

I've given them enough warning, though. Time for me to drop the proverbial hammer.

Ummm, "every time they gun down a room full of people"? This happens a lot? Rather than concentrate on the piddly loot, how about the fact that they seem to be mass-murdering maniacs that the Star and probably others are gonna be hot to find?

[Vegetaman]

I have pulled the sirens approaching one before, and they know not to wait around for Lone Star to show up (fast learners, they are)... But they don't know that Organlegging is possible (nor that you could make big nuyen doing it), so I don't mention it to them. I probably ought to have them get ambushed while looting corpses by some stronger enemies. And then obviously make those weapons have chips in them that will be traced. And no, their headquarters doesn't have anything special. It's just a low level place in the Redmond Barrens. So the odds of it getting shot up and nobody caring about it... Are probably pretty high. I mean they have all sorts of nice locks and stuff and they have some defense items... But they are dead in the water against unmanned drones and things of that nature. Also, duffel bags full of loaded weapons make a lot of noise and could possibly go off. So many things I could do to make all hell break loose... And our next run, I do believe SOMETHING of that nature will happen.

[Vegetaman]

KCKitsune - Okay, I like that idea... Perhaps I'll throw that one in sometime.

Whipstich - Well, I haven't pulled that card on them yet, but I well may. But I like the idea of their fixer getting mad at them for unloading all the hot merchandise on him constantly. In fact, that'd be an easy way for them to get busted if they keep doing it. And they'd be out a fixer for awhile (which would suck for them, undoubtedly).

apollo124 - Not all the time, but whenever they kill anybody, they go and loot the corpses. The room full of bodies applies to the hit they did on a gang HQ and they gunned down several gangers at a meeting.

But yeah, I'm sure Lone Star is about ready to drop the hammer on these guys. They've definitely gotten wind on their antics. I feel like I've let them get away with too much so far, and it's time to give them a future reality check.

[Whipstitch]

Actually, I'd advise against treating organlegging as potentially being big money in your campaigns, especially since you clearly find the loot angle to be more trouble than it's worth already. The way it'd work in my games (it's really yet to come up) is that SINless corpses aren't worth much for runners because the middle man makes most of the cash and justifies the low payout ot the runners by pointing out that the SINless are generally in poor health and that they lack medical records so it's hard to put a good price on the corpse (and ghoul chow isn't worth much). A dead SINner, on the other hand, is by definition a "hot" item, and while it has medical records, they're also practically doing you a favor just by disposing of the corpse. I imagine the Tamanous are successful because they employ really poor groups like lower tier gangers who work for peanuts (or for scraps if they're ghouls) and actually make most of their money arranging shadey deals in hospitals and morgues for the benefit of a few rich people who for whatever reason can't wait for that new vat grown tissue or WIMP to mature. There is some big time shadowrunner level money to be made, but it's in the kind of jobs that involve straight up wetwork targeting people with ultra-rare physical qualities and other case-by-case situations that are actually full fledged shadowruns rather than just churning bodies by the truckload.

[Wounded Ronin]

One time have there be a NPC with a cranial bomb set to go off 5 combat turns after he flatlines.

Also, guerilla fighters might leave their dead enemies' boobytrapped bodies lying around.

[apollo124]

How about giving the group a mission where killing the opposition isn't an option/isn't desirable? Like bodyguarding, or transporting a (very squeamish and easily upset) person from point a to point b, make getting out without leaving evidence of their presence a condition, have shedim possess the corpses while they are being looted(I really like this one), if the party doesn't have magical backup then a spirit could do nasty accidents on a whole bag full of explosive items

[mfb]

well, two questions: first, why do you want them to stop? i'm not saying you're bad for wanting them to stop, or anything, it's just important to know what it is about their behavior that makes it an issue for you. is it a matter of "shadowrunners shouldn't do that"? is it too much trouble to count up the value of all that junk and figure how much the runners can get for it? what it is about looting dead enemies that you find problematic?

second, why are your players doing it? maybe they're used to D&D, where looting after every encounter is pretty much required; they don't understand that "shadowrunners don't do that". maybe they're just greedy bastards, trying to save up for bigger and better goodies.

[Vegetaman]

One time have there be a NPC with a cranial bomb set to go off 5 combat turns after he flatlines.

Also, guerilla fighters might leave their dead enemies' boobytrapped bodies lying around.

Again, very good ideas. I like this. The cranial bomb sounds pretty awesome, as does grenade booby trapped bodies. I think next time we play, I am really going to raise the stakes of the game. They've become complacent with getting away with stuff they shouldn't for too long, and I have warned them about doing it... So perhaps it's time to give the chain a yank. All that 'illicit profiteering' they've been doing on the side may come to a sudden head.

Whipstitch - Definitely. In fact, I remember one time they were doing a run through the sewers and I sent a pack of hungry ghouls after them... Not only was that a great running fight through the dark sewers where they didn't know where they were going (but I had made a handy map beforehand, so I could tell them if they came to a junction with options), and when they were done they had NOTHING to show for it. Other than they were out of a lot of ammo. And I like to be mean and make them use their silenced weapons. Seriously, that Defiance T-250 Shotgun or Remington 950 are really nice... But if you fire it, you're not going to be "under the cover of secrecy" anymore.

EDIT:

apollo124 - Yeah, my team only has one magic user... I really should give them a mission where they have to use nothing but stealth, and if they blow their cover, they won't get paid.

mfb - Well, I don't mind it too much, except it's not very Shadowrunner like. They're fresh out of D&D mostly, despite the fact that I hail Shadowrun being the superior game, they do like to loot the corpses at every turn. There's too much opportunity for that shiny SMG to be the downfall of your mission or come back to bite you later. The idea is to get in and out as fast and discretely as possible; not going in and shooting up the place willy nilly. The math is easy and inconsequential, it just bogs the game down to do this.

EDIT 2:

My team pretty much thinks they're king of the roost and can do whatever they want. They need to know they're just little fish in the sea, especially since they're only 7 sessions into the game. I think a good visit from Lone Star would wake them up. And since their headquarters is easily traceable using the chip tag or a busted fixer for moving hot (or tagged) goods selling out his low level contacts who got him into the mess in the first place... Would be a good lesson in that you should never trust anyone. And you don't go shooting up and looting everything you run across. It's bad form for streetwise runners.

[Adarael]

I've never had to deal with this before, because my players (and myself, I must admit) rarely loot anything that isn't rare or high-value. Like, we'll steal sniper rifles, drones, vehicles, and other stuff with major value, but not just random pistols and credsticks.
BUT.

I'd suggest impressing upon them the value of speed. Make them have to choose between looting and failing at time-critical events. Maybe they have to choose between looting and failure of a mission. Maybe there's a timed bomb. Maybe reinforcements are on their way. Maybe another team is hitting the same location at the same time.

One of the most elegant solutions I've seen came from the GM of my current game - I'm not running it, for once. We were in an EPA facility jacking some nanotech samples and whitepaper, and I'd cracked this on-site secure data storage site. Inside was just tons of paydata - shit I could sell for tons and tons of money. I could have downloaded it, except for one small fact.

Another team was hitting the same location while I was downloading what we'd sent to get, and they were not subtle. They had a helicopter and were tossing autofire and toxic wave spells like it was the apocalypse. Naturally the EPA (which had UCAS troops guarding the facility) escalated in kind. I heard reinforcements coming over the comm channel I cracked, and all sorts of data being sent back to the local garrison. So I had to make a choice: get greedy and possibly killed, or cut my losses and book with my team, having gotten the paydata.

Very elegant way to get the impression across that it was time to leave. Especially since any damage we'd done (which was admittedly almost none at all - not a shot was fired by us) would get covered up by the other team's activities.

[Vegetaman]

The only time-critical event I had them screw up was when they were attacking the gang headquarters, there was mention between two gangers in the hallway they were about to enter about the possibility that another gang was coming along to rumble with them. The idea being that they should get in and out before the other gang got there.

Of course, right as they finished killing the gang leader and his "muscle" lackeys, the other gang had already started up a dramatic firefight outside and were finding the reduced numbers of the gang a great way to storm into the building. I actually applied enough heat to them (including molotov cocktails, frag grenades, and pistol fire) to make them decide they should find a back exit and escape. I should try things like this again. Press the time issue; put them on a timetable.

I think in any run the best my character ever stole was a motorcycle of a go-ganger to make a quick getaway as he got cut off from the rest of the team. Made for an interesting story, at any rate. Of course he had to ditch the bike the first chance possible, but still. Time is of the essence.

I already can see our next session shaping up already.

[mfb]

then, yeah, i'd go with suggestions related to making the looting not worth their effort. have them get caught by reinforcements while looting, have looted gear get traced back to them, and so on. and don't be afraid to hit them with a big stick--when the reinforcements come, make it serious reinforcements, and make it clear that this is only the first wave. when the runners' loot gets tracked back to them, have them lose that safehouse and all the gear in it, kill some of their contacts, etc.

personally, i don't have a problem with looting, as long as it's done intelligently. if my runners kill some corporate strike team or enemy runner team out in the middle of the barrens, hell, there won't be anything left of them--the weapons go in my arsenal, the bodies to to a street doc, and anything i can't sell goes to my ganger buddies as a bonus to this month's payment for watching my place. looting, in my book, is a very shadowrunner thing to do, because it allows you to make a profit from cleaning up evidence. if you have time to do it, i'd do it--but usually, there isn't time.

[Adarael]

Also, I'd like to point out that sometimes to dispose of bodies properly, just stealing the whole corpse really is the best way to dispose of them. My street sam's doctor has diced more corpses than I care to count, just because I didn't want to leave them where they'd be found.

Edit: Beaten to the punch by mfb. Yes, exactly what he said.

[Vegetaman]

They're definitely not very good at clean-up. They don't think of evidence leaving or disposing, they're just seeing green (or whatever color nuyen is) Y signs.

[ArkonC]

They're definitely not very good at clean-up. They don't think of evidence leaving or disposing, they're just seeing green (or whatever color nuyen is) Y signs.

Seems to me it's not the looting that bothers you, but the fact that they loot ad&d style, SR style...
I could be wrong though...
But having their base of ops raided, having the 2nd wave arrive while they are looting wallets, make the risk of stupid looting outweigh the benefits, like it should...
Either they'll adapt or they'll die, which is as it should be...

[Whipstitch]

Glad you liked the annoyed Fixer suggestion. When roleplaying Fixers it helps to remember that many of the smart ones are really service providers and talent scouts more than they are retailers. Much like a good hotel or casino, a Fixer is willing to be inconvenienced in many small ways to keep people coming in, but at the end of the day it's all in the hopes of getting a big score either through a truly worthwhile item to fence or a big payday from arranging a run. Sure, a Fixer gets things for runners and fences their gear, and yes, there is some profit in it, but Fixers take on such tiny tasks like selling a dozen used Predators mostly to keep everyone happy. After the bazillionth small deal it really is perfectly appropriate that their Fixer explains that he's doing them a favor when they bring him such trivial things, not vice versa.