American Steel, Put your hands up for Detroit Options

[Chrysalis]

Greets,

I was thinking about Shadowrun. How wussy the cars are. Most of the SR cars seem to be scifi editions of the Toyota Corolla, Nissan Micra, or VW Golf. Small, short Japanese cars with ludicrous names.

So, I draw out the question where are the cool cars. Where are the lowriders and muscle cars? Where are the Detroit models like the Cadillac Eldorado or the Dodge Charger?

Is Shadowrun really about driving the midpriced Smart car made from near plastic?

[Grinder]

The era of steel-monsters that use up fuel like crazy is over in 206+.

[Shrike30]

The infamous deMarco brothers are working on modifying a Hotspur to meet their exacting specifications. That one aside, the selection of vehicles is heavily limited to 1-2 of each class... something like the Charger might be best represented by the GP-COP or the LS-Modded Honda 3240 Turbo (similar model: the Eurocar Persecutor SE (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) ) out of the Security vehicles section of Arsenal.

The era of steel-monsters that use up fuel like crazy is over in 206+.

Not sure it's gonna take that long... when I started driving about 10 years ago, I remember gasoline being a sliver under 1 USD a gallon. I saw diesel for 4 USD a few days ago.

[mike_the_fish]

So-called "cool" cars are eventually going to have to take a backseat to reality - and that reality is that giant cars are just going to be impossible to use in the future (unless somebody invents a v8 engine that runs on the Mr. Fusion from Back to the Future).

[Chrysalis]

As long as there are people who have more money than others there will always be cool cars. The nice thing with old fashioned American cars is that you can actually modify them. There are numerous examples of modern cars that have the same appeal as the old American cars (from Sports cars, roadsters, to luxury saloon cars). Besides, do you really see the appeal of putting two trolls and the elf rigger in the back of a hatchback?

And what about street credibility when you drive in a reasonably priced car?

-Chrysalis

[hobgoblin]

dont you know that big muscle do not run on gasoline? it runs on properly aged whiskey! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

beyond that, grab the stats from the westwind or shin-hyung and rebrand it as something more muscle like.

[KCKitsune]

Everyone does remember the one proverb: "Necessity is the Mother of invention!" right?

When oil runs out there will be alternatives. Trust me, there's just too much money to be made.

[ArkonC]

Everyone does remember the one proverb: "Necessity is the Mother of invention!" right?

When oil runs out there will be alternatives. Trust me, there's just too much money to be made.

Unfortunately, there's also a lot of money to be made by controlling the oil and stopping the development of alternatives...

[Critias]

I've had a character or two describe a Westwind as a Mustang or a Charger, and no one really minds or anything. *shrugs* No biggie, either way, as rarely as cars really come up in game.

[It trolls!]

Well, the authors did leave the upcoming oil crisis out of the vehicle fluff in Arsenal, just stating that cars in 2070 are usually hybrids running on a mix of gasoline and biofuel. And I don't remember there being other notes about shortages or innovations in fossil fuel in SR history. But then I also never read any of the previous edition's rigger books.
Was there anything in SR2/3 fluff?

[Cadmus]

Bah, whats the fun if ya can't have a car that when you rev it at the stop light the imports shiver in fear and envy!

man gas for 90 cents was not that long ago damit!

[hermit]

You may thank China and India for becoming industrianised nations and adding 2,5 billion potential consumers of gasoline for the 3/gallon prices ...

Anyway, the vehicle selection in SR4 is just sad, depressing and stupid. You'd be off best to convert something from SR3, like the Dynamit,, and use that as a basis for your muscle car.

Of course, the authors and SR4 fanboys will go to great lengths to tell you why a Westwind's stats are more than sufficient for anything sports cars-y you may need.

Or, you go with the times and buy your characters Segway Personal Transporterts, or drone wheelchairs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[hobgoblin]

Bah, whats the fun if ya can't have a car that when you rev it at the stop light the imports shiver in fear and envy!

man gas for 90 cents was not that long ago damit!

and yet the import could very well keep pace or even outperform on the same amount of fuel that the little stop light show consumed (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Critias]

Of course, the authors and SR4 fanboys will go to great lengths to tell you why a Westwind's stats are more than sufficient for anything sports cars-y you may need.

Yeah, that's me. A big ol' SR4 fanboy.

[kzt]

The era of steel-monsters that use up fuel like crazy is over in 206+.

Yeah, you can tell that by how they are all covered in armor plate heavier than most so called "armored cars". Nothing like adding a few tons of weight to improve fuel economy, handling and stability. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

[imperialus]

Yeah, you can tell that by how they are all covered in armor plate heavier than most so called "armored cars". Nothing like adding a few tons of weight to improve fuel economy, handling and stability. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif)

In a world as fucked up as the Sixth armoured cars are going to be huge. I remember when my parents were living in Ecuador and my mom was looking for a car, and right on the showroom floor they had an armoured LandRover with a pintle mount. It wasn't a 'specialty' dealership either. Just GM (or some such) Ecuador. When chances are, at some point in your life you will get shot at by a go-gang on your morning commute putting some armoured plating on your car just makes sense. I also expect that this need will lead to a revolution in light vehicle armour. If the armour is some weird carbon fiber mesh between the panels of the door it's not going to add that much weight for a car to have a fairly decent armour value, at least against small caliber weapons.

Of course the first thing we did when we got 4th ed was convert that Humvee from Fields of Fire.

[Adarael]

Remember that the items in the main book are generally intended to act as classes of vehicles, not specific vehicles unto themselves. For instance, my "Mercury Comet" is actually a 2070s Nissan Skyline/350Z style coupe, given that I paid to have it modded with turbocharging and speed optimization. Even Arsenal states that the Hyundai Shin-Hyung is ALSO the BMW 400GT. And if that doesn't turn your crank... just make something up!

I'm also gonna inform you all of a little bit of vehicular heresy: top speed generally doesn't matter for runners. Seriously. Most shadowruns take place in a cramped urban environment where there are all kinds of cars and shit in your way. It's great you have a 2070 model Supra with dual turbos and that special Quicksilver fuel package that gives you 750bhp off the line, but you know what?
You're never gonna hit 200mph in Seattle, period. You'll hit someone or something if you try.

Handling and accelleration, on the other hand... that's where you should be dumping your money. Top speed matters a lot less than breaking line of sight and quickly navigating surface streets in Cap Hill and Queen Anne.

[Vegetaman]

That's why you have awesome rides like The GMC Bulldog Step-Van and a wide assortment of motorcycles. Some of them more wussy than others. And you can drop your kids off at school by day, and do Shadowrunning by night!

[Cthulhudreams]

Unfortunately, there's also a lot of money to be made by controlling the oil and stopping the development of alternatives...

You mean like how Toyota is abandoning its Prius concept and everyone and their dog has canceled the long term hydrogen fuel cell research projects they have going?

Oh, wait.. they haven't.

There is a buttload of money to be made in this sort of eco-friendly market. Just look at the Prius man (for the love of god) and to see why it isn't as simple as you think it is, look at the Honda Civic hybrid. The prius massively outsells the civic hybrid, despite consistently scoring worse in reviews. The explanation: The Prius looks different, the civic hybrid looks exactly like a regular civic. Honda jumped the wrong way and that cost it money.

People are buying the Prius as a status symbol to demonstrate their eco credentials (despite the small euro desiels being more eco-friendly). But the grim reality is that corporations will make whatever they can profitably sell. Plus it takes a seriously long time to develop a new car, like 5+ years. The envrio cars are only just starting to come into production now that the prius has demonstrated you can make money. Car companies are pretty conservative as R&D is seriously expensive, and if you jump the wrong way you lose billions of dollars, so everyone was happy to trundle along with the combustion engine because it A) Made money and B) Made money (There are reasons C-> Z, but I'm sure you get the idea)

And thats not going to change in 2070. Car companies will make whatever they think they can sell, and are pretty conservative about that.
high energy prices indicate that fuel efficent cars will be all the rage, totally irrespective of what they are powered with.

[Rajaat99]

You didn't specify if you play SR3 or 4. In SR3, it's easy to draw up whatever car you want with Rigger 3 rules. If you hate doing stuff like that, let me know and I'll do it for you.
If you play SR4, then don't ask me, I don't know vehicle stats for it.

[imperialus]

It's really not that hard to come up with vehicle stats for SR4, at least if you're familiar with SR3's rules. I've done fairly well just eyeballing it making everything from a Desert Rat converstion to a GiTS style Tilt Wing. At the end of the day it just comes down to looking at the stats and saying 'does this work for my game or not?'

CODE

2069 Dodge Charger
Hand Accel Speed Pilot Body Armor Sensor Avail Cost
+2    20/60   200   3    12   10   1      -   85,000*

Took me less than 5 minutes. I started at 9:35, ended at 9:39.
*it took longer to edit the table so stuff lined up than it did to actually write the thing up.
*typo on the price.

[hobgoblin]

very comparable to the westwind.

the diff is (using westwind as basis):

-1 handling
+10 "sprint" accel
-40 speed
+2 body
+4 armor
-10000 cost

not sure if the drop in speed and handling would offset the increase in accel, armor and body so much that it should result in a 10000 price drop...

[imperialus]

oops, that's a typo. The price should be the same as a westwind.

And you're right, it should be similar to the westwind. The westwind is the "sports car" from the book so having them simmilar makes sense. Why would I base it off a Bulldog or Honda Spirit?

[hobgoblin]

well in that case it should not be much of a problem imo.

[ArkonC]

You mean like how Toyota is abandoning its Prius concept and everyone and their dog has canceled the long term hydrogen fuel cell research projects they have going?

Oh, wait.. they haven't.

There is a buttload of money to be made in this sort of eco-friendly market. Just look at the Prius man (for the love of god) and to see why it isn't as simple as you think it is, look at the Honda Civic hybrid. The prius massively outsells the civic hybrid, despite consistently scoring worse in reviews. The explanation: The Prius looks different, the civic hybrid looks exactly like a regular civic. Honda jumped the wrong way and that cost it money.

People are buying the Prius as a status symbol to demonstrate their eco credentials (despite the small euro desiels being more eco-friendly). But the grim reality is that corporations will make whatever they can profitably sell. Plus it takes a seriously long time to develop a new car, like 5+ years. The envrio cars are only just starting to come into production now that the prius has demonstrated you can make money. Car companies are pretty conservative as R&D is seriously expensive, and if you jump the wrong way you lose billions of dollars, so everyone was happy to trundle along with the combustion engine because it A) Made money and B) Made money (There are reasons C-> Z, but I'm sure you get the idea)

And thats not going to change in 2070. Car companies will make whatever they think they can sell, and are pretty conservative about that.
high energy prices indicate that fuel efficent cars will be all the rage, totally irrespective of what they are powered with.

I think that, because SR is supposed to be very dystopian, when in doubt, go with the worst case scenario...
It just makes more sense to me...
Hell, you could probably charge you players a ton for gas too... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)