 Whoa! Munchkin Alert, Or "how to make a Munch-mage" |
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 Dec 4 2003, 07:27 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 917 Joined: 5-September 03 From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia Member No.: 5,585  |
Okay, flame me later, but...
Does the (admittedly) cinematic edge of "High Pain Tolerance" scare all you GM's out there? Ok, it's not a cheap character-creation (10 point for level 5) but being able to ignore 5 points of damage, either Stun or physical, has got to be a massive advantage for any mage/shaman. Ok, say I cast, well, anything below a level 7 spell. If I really mess my drain roll, in most situations, I'd have the same offensive capabilities as a retarded banana. Now I can ignore the stun modifier of that botched spell, rip off another one and (hopefully) loot the still-steaming bodies. Yes/No? L. |
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Dec 4 2003, 08:11 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955 |
Useless compared to the following wiz tactic:
Cast Armour at force six. Buy a Secure Jacket w/ Gel Packs. Hardened Armour of 11/9. 11/11 w/ Helmet. That means nothing short of a heavy rifle is going to so much as touch that character. I see him falling down a lot, but oh well. Focus concentration = +1 TN for nigh-invulnerability. Sustaining focus = +0 |
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Dec 4 2003, 08:27 AM
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#3
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
If I'm not mistaken, only the specific piece of armor with the gel packs attached counts as hardened. The rest is considered normally.
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Dec 4 2003, 08:55 AM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
You're certainly not mistaken!
On the topic, yeah that's nutty. You could also leave a Pain Editor on all the time giving you +1 willpower and no stun modifiers at all. You can even stay awake after you hit deadly stun! |
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Dec 4 2003, 09:23 AM
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#5
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
But neither beat the Trauma Dampener, which just lets you never take stun damage.
And Fortune/Zazen, from a numbers/mechanics point of view, how would you handle an Armour spell with a SecureJacket w/ GelPaks? Armour is outside the jacket so it gets hit first, reducing the power of an 11 down to a 5, and then the 5 Ballistic on the jacket is hit next reducing that 5 to a 0 because it's hardened. You suggesting the Armour spell is hit after the jacket is? Sphynx |
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Dec 4 2003, 10:16 AM
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#6
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
As combat is abstract anyway in Shadowrun, I'd probably work it out the other way first.
It's moot though, at least on my part, as I don't have Gel Packs in my games. I've never really had to make that ruling though, as I have never had a player want them. |
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Dec 4 2003, 07:44 PM
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#7
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,431 Joined: 3-December 03 Member No.: 5,872 |
It only removes a light wound which kicks butt sure, but you can still take stun damage if you cast an elemental manipulation or some othe rhigh drain spell. It rocks don't get me wrong, that's usually 2 more dice I can have for defense or for pumping my stunbolts. |
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Dec 4 2003, 08:51 PM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
Another thing could be a Reinforce spell on a characters Formfitting with Gelpacks. The characters armour gain an armour value of 10/7 and it is hardened.
Add a sustaining foci for that. *Reads above* So, an albino gnome with exceptional attribute WP and pain editor should be quite nice then? |
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Dec 4 2003, 09:21 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,665 Joined: 26-April 03 From: Sweden Member No.: 4,516 |
With a Trauma Damper you can cast Light damage Manabolts, Stunbolts and Powerbolts like crazy and never worry about drain - do them Force 8 (Exclusive for cost) and use all possible spell pool dice for the sorcery test. Add in a Combat Spell Foci and a Sustaining Foci for Armor 6 coupled with Formfitting 3 and an Armor Jacket. Add in Aptitude Sorcery and you are good to go, you Munchie you! :grinbig:
Cast the spell at Moderate damage against tougher opponents - odds are you reduce 4M drain to Light even with a Willpower of 4... |
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Dec 4 2003, 11:06 PM
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#10
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Not to mention that erecting Wards and summoning Watchers are a breeze. |
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Dec 4 2003, 11:13 PM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: 15-April 03 From: My own personal purgatory Member No.: 4,453 |
Form-fitting can't take gelpacks. |
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Dec 5 2003, 12:23 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955 |
Then the jacket! Let's DIKOTE EVERYTHING!
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Dec 5 2003, 02:01 AM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: 6-January 03 Member No.: 3,840 |
I resent that comment about the retarded banana... :P
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Dec 5 2003, 02:41 AM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
:eek: WHAATTT?!? :evil: So Yo're the one the Bananas have been talking about! They see you as their saviour do they? Well let me tell you this! You will nener be able to stop my plan for World-Banana Domination! Never! NEVER! BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAA! Ahem... Sorry. That just knd-of slipped out. |
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Dec 5 2003, 03:31 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955 |
Fortune, you hold 'em, I'll Dikote 'em!
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Dec 5 2003, 03:32 AM
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#16
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Works for me! ;)
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Dec 5 2003, 06:14 AM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Are you suggesting that we apply layers seperately, in succession? So my secure long coat reduces it by 4, then my armor jacket by 5, then my form-fit by another 4? :P |
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Dec 5 2003, 08:19 AM
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#18
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
I didn't suggest anything Zazen, YOU agreed with Fortune that "only the specific piece of armor with the gel packs attached counts as hardened", thus suggesting that you apply layers seperately. I'm only asking how you do that.
Sphynx |
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Dec 5 2003, 09:10 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
How about doing it like this.
You have say Vest+Plates gelpaked (4/3) under a lined coat (4/2) Total is (6/4) of which 4/3 is hardened. If all elements are hardened and stack (as apposed to layered) then thats a kick ass armour rating. Or thats how i would do it. |
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Dec 5 2003, 11:43 PM
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#20
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
So are you saying you disagree, and think that wearing one piece of hardened armor makes every other piece that you layer hardened in some mystical manner? |
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Dec 6 2003, 12:31 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 26-February 02 From: The Golden Orchards Member No.: 2,011 |
Well, I don't know about Armour spell, or the (small) amounts of armour you get get from 'ware, but there's no stacking conventional armour layers
Pg. 53 CC. |
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Dec 6 2003, 01:31 AM
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#22
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That helps, thanks. :)
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Dec 6 2003, 09:10 AM
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#23
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Yes, I'm of the opinion that stacking the Armour spell over Gel Packed does indeed provide more 'Hardened Armour' than the armour itself applies, because of Shadowrun's abstract system.
Sphynx |
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Dec 6 2003, 03:32 PM
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#24
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hmm, i recall a easy resolve on this. first look to see if the hardend armor (no spell!) alone stops the attack. if it does then the next part is mute. if not then reduce power by the effect of both the armor and the spell but disregard the part about some of ti being hardend...
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Dec 6 2003, 03:37 PM
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#25
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Immortal Elf Group: Validating Posts: 7,999 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,890 |
Right, that's how I treat it despite it not being canon. Just like vehicle armor. Though in this case it works kind of the other way around since Armor surrounds the mage.
But in the end it's effectively the same. While the Armor spell itself isn't hardened, it softens the incoming blow enough that the gel packed armor just might be enough to completely ignore it. Knockdown is still in full effect, however. Afterall, Gel Packs have got to be useful for someone. As they stand, they're all but useless. They also come with enough hindrances to make them something you don't go around wearing 24/7 unless you're some kind of munchkin or something that doesn't care that their armor is blantantly obvious, heavy, uncomfortable, gets knocked down just about everytime he takes a hit (ignored or not), and affects Quickness and Combat Pool a lot more easily than other armors. |
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