OK Serious Question, Where is the "Gay" section of Seattle in 2070? Options

[BRodda]

OK, I'm starting to get tired of my throw adept and I'm starting to think of doing a troll face/shaman who happens to be gay. The problem is, I can't find any mention if there is a section of Seattle for gay metahumans, or hell for gay humans in general. I've lived in a bunch of areas across the USA and I know most large cities have one and I figured in the Awakened world that there would probably be enclaves in Seattle for each income level. I'm looking for something in the Low lifestyle; able to support a few clubs and bars and be primarily housing.

I can picture it in my mind and I'm sure the GM will let me flesh it out a bit to save him some leg work.

Any suggestions or ideas?

[hermit]

Everywhere. Homosexuality is largely accepted without much fuss in the 2070s UCAS, including the extra liberal Enclave of Greater Seattle. (Source: SSG, Core Rules SR4). There're also a number of bisexual or gay official NPCs.

Metahumans tend to live in their metahuman racial districts, if they feel the pressing need to be amongst themselves - Elves and Dwarves in the Elven Quarter, Orcs and Trolls in the Undercity. Whether or not they're homosexual is, at best, a secondary consideration.

Sure enough, there will be gay bars and clubs, though AR profiles detailing sexual preferences might cut into their profits significantly, but only for the convenience of finding like-minded potential partners rather easily there (a nine out of ten chance of no interest whatsoever must be damn depressing), not because they're shunned elsewhere or something.

[Drogos]

BAH!!! I can't remember where that club is that the Gay Troll fixer operates out of... ::BANGS HEAD ON DESK::

As for low lifestyle, I imagine most areas of the city have low lifestyle present. I mean, even the rich people's servants got to live somewhere. Of course, there is mass transit so...

[Shadow]

Everywhere.

Hardly. Thats like saying the Chinese section of Seattle is everywhere. The Homosexual section of Seattle is east of Capital Hill, it takes up a couple of blocks and is full of gay bookstores and clubs. Races, creeds, religions, all tend to band together in their own sections of town. There is a chinese part of town, a japanese part... etc.

Just like any other part of town once your in it, it's obvious where you are. Despite what the media would have you belive, homosexuals are an extrely small minority, and while there may be more in the future, it is doubtfull that the whole town would be a "gay" part of town.







edit: for typos and clarifications.

[hermit]

Hardly. Thats like saying the Chinese section of Seattle is everywhere. The Homo...sexual section of Seattle is east of Capital Hill, it takes up a couple of blocks and is full of gay bookstores and clubs.

Uhm ... which book do you reference to?

[Drogos]

I thought it was in Havens...but I don't have it with me.

Edit : I see you were not talking to me...anywho.

[Ancient History]

Bryn Mawr and Terislar.

[BRodda]

Everywhere. Homosexuality is largely accepted without much fuss in the 2070s UCAS, including the extra liberal Enclave of Greater Seattle. (Source: SSG, Core Rules SR4). There're also a number of bisexual or gay official NPCs.

Metahumans tend to live in their metahuman racial districts, if they feel the pressing need to be amongst themselves - Elves and Dwarves in the Elven Quarter, Orcs and Trolls in the Undercity. Whether or not they're homosexual is, at best, a secondary consideration.

Sure enough, there will be gay bars and clubs, though AR profiles detailing sexual preferences might cut into their profits significantly, but only for the convenience of finding like-minded potential partners rather easily there (a nine out of ten chance of no interest whatsoever must be damn depressing), not because they're shunned elsewhere or something.

See the sectioning into quarters makes sense, but I always read the sourcebook as being "everyone in their place". Very compartmentalized and niche. While I know that the corps are going to have people everywhere I would figure metahumans would have a separate gay area; two strikes against you kind of thing. I figure it as a troll/orc "street gang (lets call them the Pansy Division) forms forms out of self protection. They would then keep the area clear of gaybashers and other bigots. Word gets around that the "Pansy Division" turf is a place where you won't get gacked just for walking home with your boyfiend or being in drag. As more people come to the area the gang gets bigger and takes over a larger area. Given the makeup of the area joyboys start working the area and more "out of towner's" come to the area with (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) to spend. The local economy picks up. Clubs and bars start to open catering to local clients.

[Fortune]

Bryn Mawr and Terislar.

Good thing you didn't say Tarislar, or I'd have to hurt you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Ancient History]

Damn. Misspell. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[adamu]

The Homosexual section of Seattle is east of Capital Hill, it takes up a couple of blocks and is full of gay bookstores and clubs. Races, creeds, religions, all tend to band together in their own sections of town. There is a chinese part of town, a japanese part... etc.

Uhm ... which book do you reference to?

Whether intentionally or not - he's referencing RL Seattle, although I'd put it smack on the west face of Capital Hill, but it's been a few years.

[Neondante]

Take a look in Runner Havens... there's mention of the "Leather Devils" go gang. And yes, they are a gay biker gang.

There's also a nightclub, although I can't remember the name. Sparkplug or something electric like that, I don't remember... But it's a gay bar on top and an all orientation BDSM joint in the basement.

Edit, flipped through the book: I quote: "When they're not terrorizing the streets, you can find the devils raising a ruckus in one of Bellevue's infamous leather bars." Guess that even if there isn't a gay district there, there's at least a sizable gay presence. Also, the club is called Powerline... and apparently there's a gay troll fixer who loves doing meets there and watching the runners twitch. Heh heh heh.

[Tzitzimine]

I've always pictured sexual preference in SR to be a concern of the distant past. It would be likened to seeing a womans ankles today as opposed to 100 years ago. In SR I've always played sexual preference about as ho-hum as "Cream or Sugar?". Not to say there wouldn't be some bars or other places that cater to that specific proclivity but by and large the number of gay/bi people has increased to such a degree as to make [those places] a novelty rather than the norm.

EDIT: Clarification.

[MightyM]

As a Seattle local, I can verify that the modern city's "alternative neighborhood" is on the west side of Capital Hill. The main drag along the crest of the hill (Broadway) is also a favored hangout with lots of clubs, restaurants, and other venues. In my mind I've always pictured the Seattle of the 2060's and 70's still being this way, though dense urban growth in downtown Seattle might drive out the beatnik, alternative culture on Capital Hill much like recent growth has driven that stuff out of the Fremont neighborhood on the north side of town (other Seattle locals would probably know what I mean).

[mfb]

according to the Sprawl Survival Guide, the population at large is not concerned with sexual orientation. in Seattle, and in the parts of the world which Seattle shares most of its culture with, there aren't any LGBT sections of town. what there might be are conservative sections of town--rather than confining places where LGBTs are welcome, the places where they aren't welcome are confined.

[CircuitBoyBlue]

I really can't see people not caring anymore about sexual orientation. I mean, it's central to who you are, and I think a lot of people are always going to be proud of it. Sure, a lot of people might rank themselves as something else first, and identify more as an elf than a homosexual. Those people are going to gravitate more toward the elven neighborhoods. But some people are going to identify more as gay than elven, or Amerindian, or whatever else they happen to be. And even for those that don't rank their homosexuality as number one on the priority listthere's still going to be a reason for a "gay neighborhood," namely that gay-oriented businesses are going to prosper better when they're located together. In RL, we don't just have ethnic enclaves in cities, we also have fashion districts, jeweler districts, etc. I imagine the gay book stores are going to be near the gay cafes and the gay nightclubs.

And Pansy Division's a great band.

[hermit]

Whether intentionally or not - he's referencing RL Seattle, although I'd put it smack on the west face of Capital Hill, but it's been a few years.

Figured that, too. Real-Life Seattle and SR Seattle have precious little in common, though.

Anyway, as for male homosexual gangs, you have the Leather Devils for that.

I really can't see people not caring anymore about sexual orientation. I mean, it's central to who you are, and I think a lot of people are always going to be proud of it. (...) And even for those that don't rank their homosexuality as number one on the priority listthere's still going to be a reason for a "gay neighborhood," namely that gay-oriented businesses are going to prosper better when they're located together.

Assuming you're heterosexual - what kind of girl do you prefer? Do you form a group with like-minded people? Do you run around decreeing "I'm heavily into the [insert type preference] kind of chick! Hell yeah! Notice me!"?

If homosexuality is as accepted as having a thing for darker skin, the asian type, or maybe fiery-haired gaelics, why make a ruckus about it? You can define yourself other than by your sexuality too, you know. Works fairly well for homosexuals, too, so long as they won't get an 'eww' as soon as they present their partners.

As for gay oriented businesses - like what? Aside from maybe sex toys, the obligatory 'meet other gay people' clubs (that WILL suffer from AR profiles acting as a more convenient matchmaking device), what? Du gay people need different cups, bottles, cleaning drones, and softwarer than heterosexuals? What about bi people, hunh?

As for gay bookstores: That's what the Matrix is for.

[Wounded Ronin]

QUICK! WRITE AN EAST VILLAGE SOURCEBOOK! NOW!!!!

[hermit]

How about "Cities of Rainbows", fitting the current themed city books line? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Seriously, homosexuality isn't much of an issue in Seattle or most of the westernised SR world (Surely is in India, the ME, Africa, possibly South America, but how many campaigns ever go there, and in how many of these this issue will actually come up?). Thus, whereever the initial poster's homosexual elf adept will decide to settle, so long as it's not hick haven Renton, he'll get along with people fairly easily.

[BRodda]

How about "Cities of Rainbows", fitting the current themed city books line? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Seriously, homosexuality isn't much of an issue in Seattle or most of the westernised SR world (Surely is in India, the ME, Africa, possibly South America, but how many campaigns ever go there, and in how many of these this issue will actually come up?). Thus, whereever the initial poster's homosexual elf adept will decide to settle, so long as it's not hick haven Renton, he'll get along with people fairly easily.

Troll drag queen shaman actually. Dark Lady totem. Trying to keep it from being pink mohawk.

For some reason I don't think that he would make it down the street in most neighborhoods without having some one having an issue with him breathing.

And honestly, and it might be the cyberpunk in me talking, I just can't picture every going "That's just Bubba's thing." Fear of the strange and unknown is a huge part of SR. You don't trust folks you don't know and you don't get near anyone who might attract "attention". I guess our game is a little more gritty.

[hermit]

Troll drag queen shaman actually. Dark Lady totem. Trying to keep it from being pink mohawk.

Some Trog Rapper types might take offense in that, but generally, most people will be way too concerned about the character being a troll than about whether or not that's a male troll wearing female clothes. Hard to tell with trogs anyway, they all look alike and stuff.

For some reason I don't think that he would make it down the street in most neighborhoods without having some one having an issue with him breathing. And honestly, and it might be the cyberpunk in me talking, I just can't picture every going "That's just Bubba's thing." Fear of the strange and unknown is a huge part of SR. You don't trust folks you don't know and you don't get near anyone who might attract "attention".

I guess that's the American talking in you (no offense meant, but you make such a fuss about peoples' sex lives). Maybe it's the liberal German in me talking, but I am just used to that kind of attitude. Besides, you have more than enough grit in SR for everyone to enjoy. Unlike what some people think, SR is neither post-apocalyptic (like, say, Ergo Proxy or Appleseed), nor is it a "everything is t3h EVEL" type of world like certain web comics. SR has numerous shades of grey, and hzow homosexuality is more or less accepted in mainstream society is one of the brighter ones.

I guess our game is a little more gritty.

More gritty than canon background, it appears, yes.

[Neondante]

Assuming you're heterosexual - what kind of girl do you prefer? Do you form a group with like-minded people? Do you run around decreeing "I'm heavily into the [insert type preference] kind of chick! Hell yeah! Notice me!"?

I hear ya man, I always kind of roll my eyes at pride parades. If I organized an "I like boobs!" parade, everyone would just look at me like I was nuts, or a pervert. If it was a straight pride parade, I'd be run out of town. I'm straight, but I'm not proud of it. It seems like being proud of being right handed, or liking chocolate ice cream. I don't think people should be ashamed of their orientation, but being proud of it just seems kind of weird.

Still, I can understand how that would be fun, flaunting your still-somewhat-taboo sexuality in a day of ridiculous by design celebration. And I doubt they will be rid of gay bars anytime in the near future... sure, gay people could just hang out in regular bars with the personality profiles, but why wouldn't you go to a place where you know EVERYONE there is a potential mate/booty call. Imagine if there were bars filled entirely with straight single women... only many of them shared your interests. (they weren't "girly") Might be fun to hang out in for a straight man, eh? It's the same for other alternative types... fetish clubs and the like abound. Sure, you could spot the other kinksters by their profiles, but why wouldn't you want to go to a place where you KNOW nobody would judge you for it? And besides, not everyone going to a gay or fetish bar is only there to get laid. Just being in a place to be around your own kind, no matter what your kind is. It's why game stores tend to be very social places, for example.

[BRodda]

Assuming you're heterosexual - what kind of girl do you prefer? Do you form a group with like-minded people? Do you run around decreeing "I'm heavily into the [insert type preference] kind of chick! Hell yeah! Notice me!"?

Uhmmm... IRL I'm a goth. So yes, I do form groups with like minded people. we have our own special nights at clubs, we have areas with stores that sell the books we like to read, the music we like to listen to and the clothes we like to wear.
And lets face it black PVC and fishnets does indead scream I'm into freaky/gothy/fetish kind of chicks. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

As for gay oriented businesses - like what? Aside from maybe sex toys, the obligatory 'meet other gay people' clubs (that WILL suffer from AR profiles acting as a more convenient matchmaking device), what? Du gay people need different cups, bottles, cleaning drones, and software than heterosexuals? What about bi people, hunh?

As for gay bookstores: That's what the Matrix is for.

All subcultures are about community and not being alone. Going back to my personal experience, yes there are plenty of newsgroups, websites, news feeds and on-line resources for goths. And they are almost entirely used to let us know where we can go to hang out in person with people just like us or talking about what they saw last time they were out. Bars, clothing stores, coffee shops, dinners that are known to be friendly tend to be frequented a lot more by any subculture.
So in specific for my example:
Drag cabaret bars.
Dance clubs.
Regular small businesses that are owned and run by gay people (believe or not a lot of people will spend money at places that support them and are part of their culture).

Specific to SR?:
Clothing stores: Where else are you going to get size 12 gogo boots that can hold a male troll.(anyone seen Kinky Boots?)
Fake SINS: Lets face it if you don't want your corp to know that you spend part of your time doing something you'll want a fake SIN. Might be in fashion to have one for your persona.
Drug dealers: Lets face it each subculture has their own drugs. One of the nights I go to is in a gay bar and there are signs warning about meth use EVERYWHERE.
Joyboys/Girls: Obvious.
Custom Pheromones: Lets face it most mass market perfumes and colognes are meant for heterosexuals.

If anyone can think others I'd appreciate it.

[hermit]

So yes, I do form groups with like minded people. we have our own special nights at clubs, we have areas with stores that sell the books we like to read, the music we like to listen to and the clothes we like to wear.
And lets face it black PVC and fishnets does indead scream I'm into freaky/gothy/fetish kind of chicks.

Okay, but that doesn't really apply to most people. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

All subcultures are about community and not being alone.

Gay friends of mine usually are put off by gay subculture actually, of people telling them what a real gay man or woman should look like, act like and vote. You choose to be a Goth. You do not choose whether or not to be gay. So thinking gays automatically hang around only 'their own' people is a bit flawed.

Regular small businesses that are owned and run by gay people (believe or not a lot of people will spend money at places that support them and are part of their culture).

All but two of my gay acquaintances would propably laugh at you for that, or shake their heads, or be pissed. They're, aside from preferring both or their own sex, pretty ordinary people with no common psychological trait or shared taste. One is collecting coocoo clocks, for instance.

Fake SINS: Lets face it if you don't want your corp to know that you spend part of your time doing something you'll want a fake SIN. Might be in fashion to have one for your persona.

That's highly illegal and, unless you work for MCT or Renraku, totally unnescessary.

Clothing stores: Where else are you going to get size 12 gogo boots that can hold a male troll.(anyone seen Kinky Boots?)

Fetish stores (online as well as in-the-flesh)?

Custom Pheromones: Lets face it most mass market perfumes and colognes are meant for heterosexuals.

Uhm, homosexuals prefer standard pheromones of their own respective sex. Pheromone perfumes emmit pheromones designed to attract whoever is into males (or females). I don't see how gays would be turned on by different pheromones than heterosexuals. They react to different pheromone groups than heterosexuals of their own sex, but they react to the same pheromone groups heterosexuals of their opposite sex react to. Thus, homosexuals can well use run-of-the-mill KArl Kombatmage pheromone perfumes. Works for gay men as well as for heterosexual women.

[Synner667]

OK, I'm starting to get tired of my throw adept and I'm starting to think of doing a troll face/shaman who happens to be gay. The problem is, I can't find any mention if there is a section of Seattle for gay metahumans, or hell for gay humans in general. I've lived in a bunch of areas across the USA and I know most large cities have one and I figured in the Awakened world that there would probably be enclaves in Seattle for each income level. I'm looking for something in the Low lifestyle; able to support a few clubs and bars and be primarily housing.

I can picture it in my mind and I'm sure the GM will let me flesh it out a bit to save him some leg work.

Any suggestions or ideas?

Sorry, but what are you actually askin' ??

Do your gay characters only live in certain places ??
Do your gay characters have a certain look to them ??

Unless you specifically have gay enclaves [such as the ones in Street Lethal]..
..Why on earth would you separate them out and make them 'different' ??