Why do some game companies insist on being children?, WW's Graduate your game Options

[swirler]

Graduate your game

I've enjoyed playing WW stuff for a long time but their pissing contest BS makes me sick. I can't stand fans who do the "my game is better nyah nyah" crap and companies that do it are worse. I personally like to have a choice in games to fit whatever mood I or my group are in.

also it says "Why wait until August for the release of the Dungeons & Dragons Fourth Edition? Get your copy of Exalted Second Edition today, simply by turning in your D&D 3.5 Player’s Handbook." last I knew all 3 books were being released in june, did I miss a time frame change announcement?
The thing that really gets me as asinine is the fact that allegedly they are shredding all the PHBs they get. HUH??? That is just stupid IMHO.

[fistandantilus4....]

That's pretty nasty. But not that surprising.

[ Spoiler ]

Sadly, it reminds me of an episode of Sponge Bob I saw with my kids I had to put it in spoilers becuase I'm ashamed to have seen it.

The 'villian' Planktin has this robot go out and grab people off the street, dropping them into a sealed room. They all run around panicking. Planktin comes in and laughs maniaclly, and says something to the affect of "Mwahahahha! Now you'll all be forced to eat at the ChumBucket!"

The people stop and look at him. "Wait, you mean you kid napped us with a giant robot jsut to have us eat at your stupid restaurant."

Planktin *exasperated* : "*sigh* It's a standard marketing technique!"

[Mr. Man]

Trading soon-to-be-obsolete D&D books for shiny new [any other game] books might be a good promotion, but framing it in such confrontational language is a big mistake. WW marketing has a history of doing stupid things like this (remember when they tried to create their own moral panic?)

I'm ashamed to have seen it.

Don't be. It's on the same level as Bugs Bunny, IMO.

The thing that really gets me as asinine is the fact that allegedly they are shredding all the PHBs they get. HUH??? That is just stupid IMHO.

No, "stupid" would be reselling your competitor's product (although once you have entered into a "Pepsi Challenge" style ad campaign where you are directly comparing your product to the competition's you can't really be accused of doing something "smart" in most cases).

The best way to handle it would be to recycle the books. The environmental angle could even be a big part of the promotion.

[Critias]

Guerilla marketing, and little more. They got you to post a link to their offer here, on another role playing forum, didn't they?

And, maybe it's just me, but anyone here on Dumpshock donning the shiny white armor to play valiant prince in defense of D&D is a little ridiculous. How often have we had to hear "...causes cancer, heehee" around here in reference to every d20 product ever made, on what is unarguably the closest thing to an official Shadowrun forum that exists? White Wolf offering people a product in exchange for another, obsolete product, is certainly no less tacky than that ridiculous meme.

[Adam]

The thing that really gets me as asinine is the fact that allegedly they are shredding all the PHBs they get. HUH??? That is just stupid IMHO.

Bear in mind that WW is doing this promotion through game stores. The game store is supposed to strip the cover off and send that to WW, and throw the interior away. This is fine and sensible: it proves to WW that the book was destroyed, and it saves in a great deal of shipping costs. It would likely cost MORE for WW to pay to have all the books shipped to them than they would be able to recoup by selling them.

It's not like someone is running through a bookstore, grabbing brand new titles, and tearing them up. These are books that somebody *doesn't want* and they're trading it for books they *do want*. The promotion is limited to 2500 copies and there are hundreds of thousands of D&D 3.5 handbooks in the world; losing 2500 of them is not going to deprive the world of any information or knowledge.

[swirler]

I guess I just see it as a jerk move and also wasteful. I'm definitely not a believer in the "any press is good press" mode of thinking.


I also wouldn't consider 3.5 obsolete. There is still most likely going to be a large segment of the D&D populace who are not moving on to 4E. I am in the "let's see how it is and then decide" camp, personally. The 3.5 SRD is still viable and from what I understand many companies are fine with sticking with it if 4E is a bust.

I also consider the "causes cancer" thing a joke. I don't imagine any of the catalyst people "getting the hose out" for people who play more than just SR & CBT.


Edit: for clarity

[Adam]

I also wouldn't consider 3.5 obsolete. There is still most likely going to be a large segment of the D&D populace who are not moving on to 4E. I am in the "let's see how it is and then decide" camp, personally.

And ... so? You wanna keep your 3.5 stuff, so that's great. There are other people who are going to want to get rid of it, so they may as well exchange it for something useful.

You may not personally find this promotion worthwhile, but that doesn't mean that it isn't worthwhile.

[Cthulhudreams]

I wonder what the economics is like for WW. They are out for their unit price of a Exalted second edition book per PHB turned in.

Obviously they think the customer capture from D&D will be high, and that those people will go on to buy a number of other Exalted source books, but I'm not so sure about that. Multiple sourcebook people seem to have higher brand loyalty, and are therefore less likely to be captured by this promotion.

Tricky question.

[swirler]

You may not personally find this promotion worthwhile, but that doesn't mean that it isn't worthwhile.

I just thought the wasting of books was bad. It's not like it's old money that needs to be taken out of circulation.

And it seemed snarky the whole "we are better than them" elitist attitude. Seemed rather childish. It's not like I'm bashing WW as a whole, I just think this was a bad idea. I'm not saying other companies haven't done things on the same level.

[Adam]

I just thought the wasting of books was bad. It's not like it's old money that needs to be taken out of circulation.

You see it as "wasting" -- but I don't see the waste in exchanging a book you don't want for a book you do [or might] want.

I don't think a book has some sort of magical right to BE in circulation. If people don't like or want a book, it gets destroyed. I've carried boxes of books out the back of a publisher's office and tossed them into a dumpster; filling the dumpster entirely [we had to make room for NEW books] -- the first time I did that, it kind of sucked, but it's just business. It's the same as throwing out that old version of Windows 95 you don't use anymore, or a whole bunch of VHS tapes. I threw out a bunch of no-longer-needed books late last year, and I'll probably be doing the same in a few months unless I can find the time to sell them -- but frankly, it might be more cost efficient for me to spend that time *working* and just throw the books away.

And, again, there are hundreds of thousands of the D&D PHB in circulation; it's not like WW is asking you to turn in some sort of rare/valuable book.

And it seemed snarky the whole "we are better than them" elitist attitude. Seemed rather childish. It's not like I'm bashing WW as a whole, I just think this was a bad idea. I'm not saying other companies haven't done things on the same level.

From what I've seen, this is going to be a successful promotion for White Wolf. When it comes down to it, the "fan outrage" doesn't matter at all: there is more value for WW in potentially creating 2500 new fans than there is in ticking off 50 rabid posters on RPG.net or Dumpshock. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Fuchs]

More than 50 I'd say - I consider the "graduate your game" rather pretentious, so with regards to me it was counter-productive.

[BishopMcQ]

I'm with Adam on this one. At work I've tossed out literally a pallet worth of printed material that a customer decided they didn't want anymore. This is a win-win situation for just about everyone, WotC won previously when you bought their book and now WW is winning by getting their product directly into your hands. You win by getting a free book in exchange for one which you don't think you will use in the future.

Except for the strong negative connotations about book burning, I'd recommend that one of the local stores here do a bonfire event. Keep the cover, toss your old PHB in the fire and get your new book. (It is afterall, always fun to find a new reason to party on the beach.)

Personally, I'm going to trade in my English 3.5 book for the Exalted book. I will still have a copy in French that I can reference when I'm playing. Beyond that, I'd keep my French copy for the fact that no one else in my group has any use for it and it's a keepsake.

As far as the "graduate your game" line being pretentious, I think it's an innovative way to approach the coming "Graduation Season" that sits in between Easter and the 4th of July for many retailers. White Wolf found a way to capitalize on one of the big events that happens in a person's life (graduating from High School or College), kudos to them.

[nezumi]

How often have we had to hear "...causes cancer, heehee"

You say that like it isn't true...

I've carried boxes of books out the back of a publisher's office and tossed them into a dumpster; filling the dumpster entirely [we had to make room for NEW books]

*cries* Next time give me a call, I'll help you out!!

Seriously though, while I agree it's not fun to waste a book (and those books better get recycled!) I for one would have no problem trading in my 3.0 book I don't use and hope never to use again in exchange for a shiny, new book I will use. I'd rather my old book go to someone who will use it, but if it doesn't, well... It's not helping anyone gathering dust on my bookshelf, is it?

I will agree though, the phraseology is pretty pretentious, even if the deal is pretty good.

[swirler]

I'd rather my old book go to someone who will use it

that was kinda my point

[Adam]

Are there a great number of people who want a 3.5PHB but lack one?

[Okay, I kinda want one, too -- I'd trade it for a copy of Exalted 2nd Edition]

[nezumi]

Would you trade for 3.0? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[swirler]

if 4e doesnt really do it for our group onc we've read through it, im going to pick up a couple extra 3.5s to have around the house for people to use

[apollo124]

Just call me an old school capitalist, but when I don't want a book anymore, I either take it to a used bookstore or say the magic word "eBay". After collecting a small amount of loot from someone who does want my old book, I take my little pieces of paper to my FLGS and buy a shiny new book. Truly recycling, IMO.

As to whether the sales gimmick is pretentious, meh. I know we've all seen far too many truly idiotic sales pitches/ads in our lives. I think I don't mind pretentious, rather than another "What the hell were they smoking when they made this ad?" kind of ad campaign.
My 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

Edit: By the way, Swirler is right about the June date of release for the new 4th ed D+D core books. I was looking at the site about half an hour ago. Glad I'm not really into that game right now. $105 for 3 rulebooks in one month is way too salty for my paycheck.

[Glyph]

Honestly, it sounds like any of those "First 1,000 callers get it free!" scams. 2500 copies? What happens if when they run out of copies? You've sent away your Player's Handbook, and you're out the $5.00 "shipping and handling" they tack onto it, so I imagine you'll have the "opportunity" to buy a copy of Exalted. That, or you're just out a rulebook and five bucks. Considering how many potential d20 people they could scam with this, giving away a piddling 2500 copies is chickenfeed. If you don't want your old Player's Handbook, take it to Ebay or Half Price Books. You might only get a few books for it, but at least you'll come out ahead.

[Fuchs]

Might be just be me, but I don't really get encited to play a game advertised that way. I have had and am having a lot of fun with D&D 3.0 (although we house ruled it extensively), and the "Now graduate to a real game" stick just sounds very arrogant to me - and cheap.

I don't react well to all the 4E marketing either, all the "awesome" and "cool" thrown around just make me think "empty hype", even though the information we are getting so far looks good.

[Adam]

Honestly, it sounds like any of those "First 1,000 callers get it free!" scams. 2500 copies? What happens if when they run out of copies? You've sent away your Player's Handbook, and you're out the $5.00 "shipping and handling" they tack onto it, so I imagine you'll have the "opportunity" to buy a copy of Exalted. That, or you're just out a rulebook and five bucks. Considering how many potential d20 people they could scam with this, giving away a piddling 2500 copies is chickenfeed. If you don't want your old Player's Handbook, take it to Ebay or Half Price Books. You might only get a few books for it, but at least you'll come out ahead.

I'll eat my hat if White Wolf "scams" a single person with this.

[Critias]

What happens if when they run out of copies?

Uh...the promotion ends?

[Daddy's Litt...]

My husband was playing when it was AD&D and in our basement we have books like "fiend folio." He has told me of the fun people had running out to buy those books when they first came out. NOW, he does not bother even thinking of it.

[swirler]

Might be just be me, but I don't really get excited to play a game advertised that way. I have had and am having a lot of fun with D&D 3.0 (although we house ruled it extensively), and the "Now graduate to a real game" stick just sounds very arrogant to me - and cheap.

see, that is pretty much how I felt. I have thought before about checking out Exalted but this kinda turned my stomach some. I referred to it to a friend as "Jr. High level marketing".

That being said, I do not think it is a "scam" per say. I just think it was a cheap promotional stunt.

[DocTaotsu]

I erm... I abhor getting rid of books, especially gaming books. I couldn't imagine giving away my 2nd ed D&D books, I have such fond memories! That said I guess I could part with my 3.0 books since I like 3.5 so much better.

As to the marketing ploy: Eh. It is kind of obnoxious that their trying to make it an "Us vs. Them" but that is kind of the point of marketing "Try our product! If you only have 30 bucks to spend on a new game system spend it on us!"

I dream of a world where all game systems can live in peace in harmony... and where I can find people to play Blue Planet with me...