Arsenal review, What are your thoughts? Options

[nathanross]

Hmm...im still trying to figure out why Hardliner Gloves are considered Exotic Weapons.

You're Joking! right?

That would just be absurd (I like your hardliner face example, btw)

This does bring up my issue with Exotic Weapon () skill. I think it should just go away. Find some other type of weapon category to put it under. Gun cane is a gun (longarms), monofilament whip is a whip (did that skill disappear?), Gyrojet pistol is treated as a rocket launcher (heavy weapons?), etc. Just hearing Exotic Weapons make me run out of the room shouting "NOOOOOOO NOT D&D!!!!!!"

Seriously though, it is just laziness.
"Well we got all the main skills taken care of, what about the odds and ends?"
"Just throw 'em together as Exotic Weapons and buy each one separately"

[ElFenrir]

It's a strange entry. They are indeed under Exotic Weapons(i finally got to talk awhile in depth about Arsenal with my buddy who had it last night, since ive had lousy luck finding it in Helsinki. Either they didnt get it, or they get one and a time and it sells ASAP.)

BUT...then in the blurb, it explains how it gives +1 P to Punches, and to use with Unarmed.

Now, my buddy says the second thing makes entirely more sense.

But it doesn't even make sense why they'd be under Exotic Weapons at all.

And yeah, the whole Exotic Weapons thing. Im not too much into it either. I mean, ok, i suppose you can say 'game balance', or try to..but the Monowhip is the only real killer weapon there(stuff like the Squirt it depends what it's filled with). But if the Whips skill was seperate...they'd have to take it ANYWAY seperate from the other melee skills.

Polearms? Eh, same reach as a Combat Axe, -2AP but less damage Stick 'em under Blades i say.

Blade on an elbow? Use it with blades. Boot knife? Why not unarmed? A blade on the side oif your boot might change how you fight a BIT but i don't think enough to warrant a whole skill.

IMO, Exotic Weapon should be like the aformentioned face weapons, oral blades, or stuff that is Just. Really. Fragging. Weird.

Well, house rules, house rules. Ive been pawing through the list myself to see what i want to lump in with other stuff-and in my games, the Whips skill is back. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[DocTaotsu]

Errata than?

[ElFenrir]

Might be. Im guessing it when it's got two different things printed.

[Critias]

Or it might've just been listed under Exotic Weapons -- ironically -- to prevent confusion as to what skill to use for it. Maybe they didn't want to put it with blades or something on the chart, to confuse folks, so they lumped it under Exotic to give us the price, etc...

[Fortune]

EXOTIC WEAPONS
The following section covers a variety of melee and ranged weapons either unique in design or requiring very special combat skills, as well as weapons whose functionality differs fundamentally from other weapons of their category.

Since there are no other 'weapons' for Unarmed Combat, there is no actual section or category for them to be included under. I think it totally reasonable that Hardliner Gloves are listed here.

Hardliner Gloves: These stylish leather gloves provide an extra bit of punch when the chips are down. Each glove contains a thin layer of densiplast set into the knuckles and along the ridges of the hand. A character wearing these using Unarmed Combat to attack.

I don't really see any ambiguity, nor do I see a need for Errata in this instance (except to change the wording from 'using' to 'uses' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ).

[DocTaotsu]

Ah... so it's not realy an Exotic Weapon, it's an exotic weapon. A little confusing but i'm over it.

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, now, reading them back to back, i can see it more. It was just more or less a little brain overload for a second, but now its the difference between an exotic weapon and an Exotic Weapon, if you will.

Carry on then. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Nightwalker450]

Along these same lines...

Do cyber claws negate the use of Unarmed Combat? If I have cyberclaws am I then unable to use martial arts, since these would be considered "Exotic Melee Weapons" instead of "Unarmed Combat". So if I have claws of a cat, I am less efficient at Wildcat style martial arts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Prime Mover]

Fighting with the claws would be seperate from an unarmed attack. Unarmed martial arts and melee attack would be two seperate things would they not? IIRC Cyber weapons are included in Exotic weapons description in BBB.

[Nightwalker450]

Fighting with the claws would be seperate from an unarmed attack. Unarmed martial arts and melee attack would be two seperate things would they not? IIRC Cyber weapons are included in Exotic weapons description in BBB.

I know that cyber weapons are included in Exotic weapons, I just think I should be apply the use of my claws into the martial art. But there is no martial art for "exotic melee weapons", unless you count the one that gives you bonuses for attacking with a cyberweapon in an odd place (pelvic thrust attack!). I might have to create my own martial art, Wildcat for Cats. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The benefit though of them being exotic melee weapons and not unarmed, I can take the Off-Hand fighting maneuver for them. And buy my retractable climbing claws for both hands seperatly (as all other cyber melee weapons are) and get my +4 climbing bonus.

[Nightwalker450]

I know that cyber weapons are included in Exotic weapons, I just think I should be apply the use of my claws into the martial art. But there is no martial art for "exotic melee weapons", unless you count the one that gives you bonuses for attacking with a cyberweapon in an odd place (pelvic thrust attack!). I might have to create my own martial art, Wildcat for Cats. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The benefit though of them being exotic melee weapons and not unarmed, I can take the Off-Hand fighting maneuver for them. And buy my retractable climbing claws for both hands seperatly (as all other cyber melee weapons are) and get my +4 climbing bonus.

So for this I need
Unarmed Melee Skill: for claws in, otherwise I can never deal stun damage skilled
Exotic Melee Skill (claws): for claws out
Exotic Melee Skill (Raptor Legs): to kick them
Exotic Melee Skill (Raptor Claws): If I eventually get these, will I need seperate for them, or are they covered by the first claws?

Woohoo - 4 Melee skills for this character possibly. Or can I just get
Exotic Melee Skill (Cat Fight): And cover everything...
I'll have to corner my GM...

[Moon-Hawk]

So for this I need
Unarmed Melee Skill: for claws in, otherwise I can never deal stun damage skilled
Exotic Melee Skill (claws): for claws out
Exotic Melee Skill (Raptor Legs): to kick them
Exotic Melee Skill (Raptor Claws): If I eventually get these, will I need seperate for them, or are they covered by the first claws?

Woohoo - 4 Melee skills for this character possibly.

What, seriously?
Note that "cyber-implants" is a specialization of Unarmed Combat. Exotic Melee Weapon refers to cyber weapons in unusual places, and the only thing which might qualify is the raptor claws, IMO.

[Whipstitch]

I allow climbing claws to be used with the Blades skill. The Blade skill states that it covers cyberimplant blades provided that they extend from the hands or forearms, and climbing claws are described as being similar to handrazors, except they're hooked and have a reinforced bone attachment. They're not great for cutting/puncturing people, but that's surely how they operate, so I figure the leap from hand claws to hand razors is surely no more awkward than the leap from a katar to a combat axe. I actually just may decide to be nice about it and decide that you can use climbing claws with unarmed combat OR blades. It couldn't hurt to have such things in a clinch or when eye gouging someone, after all. As far as being unable to deal stun damage with blades, just ask if your GM would let you take a Martial art and the Sweep maneuver, which allows you to knock down to deal Stun damage.

It's just too bad the Augmentation tables are so haphazardly organized; the fact that climbing claws are listed alongside Ceramic Bone Lacing in one section and listed with Blades in the compiled tables doesn't inspire confidence, especially when you consider that Shock Hands snuck into the Blades section as well.

[DMK]

For the most part, I've been enjoying the book. Currently playing around with creating a Rigger van... always liked doing that back in the RBB 2 days. (Never was able to get my hands on RBB 3). Anyways, a few questions/comments for others who've been reading the Mod rules:

• Are the ratings of the Mods capped at 6 for chargen? If so, it leads to odd things like being unable to improve armor in a lot of cases.
• Speaking of improving armor: I'm currently modifying a Rover 2068 which comes with 10 points of Armor. If I improve the armor later on, will it still take up a slot? I know that removing "out of the box" mods doesn't give you extra slots, but needing an extra slot because you replaced a mod with the same mod doesn't make much sense to me.
• Man oh man, do mod slots go down quickly. The Rover 2068 which is a 13 body... and slots vanish quickly when you want to do things like put in an internal flexible weapons mount.
• Another question about the Rover and it's built in modifications. It comes with off-road suspension. Now, the book says that default mods are included in the vehicle's stat lines. The Rover is listed as Handling +1. So, would that be Handling +1 off-road, +0 on the street, or Handling +2 off-road, +1 on the street?

[hobgoblin]

dont recall if it has been covered, but as i read up on launch weapons i find wondering, do these need one weapon mount pr weapon?

[BlueMax]

looks like it's missing in the consolidated table as well as the table on page 76. i'd say submit it as errata.

What is the submission process?

[Jaid]

I know that cyber weapons are included in Exotic weapons, I just think I should be apply the use of my claws into the martial art. But there is no martial art for "exotic melee weapons", unless you count the one that gives you bonuses for attacking with a cyberweapon in an odd place (pelvic thrust attack!). I might have to create my own martial art, Wildcat for Cats. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

look closer. most of the bonuses from martial arts are not melee-skill specific. wildcat works just as well with knives, swords, monowhips, broken bottles, chairs, clubs, and tire-irons as it does with unarmed. the bonuses are limited based on the skill you use them for, but it still works (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Serial_Peacemake...]

Actually I'm trying to figure out if its possible to put a rigger cocoon into the Larger walker drone for Jarheads.

[Wakshaani]

About to head for work, so, no time for a full review (alas!), but, a quick question/eratta issue:

Mimic (Page 139) allows you to make a lifelike Drone or Vehicle (Mmm, lifelike underwater sharks for infiltration!), but, there's no cost listed anywhere. Not the chart on page 138 nor teh masterchart near the end of the book.

Ack!

Can we get a slots/availability/cost/etc on this one?

[crizh]

Holy Hannah!

Terminators!!!!

[Just been watching Sarah Connor Chronical's.]

[Aaron]

About to head for work, so, no time for a full review (alas!), but, a quick question/eratta issue:

Mimic (Page 139) allows you to make a lifelike Drone or Vehicle (Mmm, lifelike underwater sharks for infiltration!), but, there's no cost listed anywhere. Not the chart on page 138 nor teh masterchart near the end of the book.

Ack!

Can we get a slots/availability/cost/etc on this one?

I believe this one's been addressed on the forums, here. Too lazy at the moment to do the search, but I'm sure someone will.

[kzt]

Well, since there are 4 pages about segways, I'll complain again about the explosives and gun in space rules on page 167. How many people looked at these? Didn't anyone take chemistry in high school? Explosives have the oxidizer as part of the explosive. That's why they are "explosive".

I do applaud the removal (on page 87 & 89) of the nutty "to make explosives blow up apply an electrical charge" insanity that keeps showing up in SR. Why didn't you have the guy who wrote the explosives rules on pages 85 to 95 look at the explosives rules on page 167?

[Muspellsheimr]

So for this I need
Unarmed Melee Skill: for claws in, otherwise I can never deal stun damage skilled
Exotic Melee Skill (claws): for claws out
Exotic Melee Skill (Raptor Legs): to kick them
Exotic Melee Skill (Raptor Claws): If I eventually get these, will I need seperate for them, or are they covered by the first claws?

Woohoo - 4 Melee skills for this character possibly. Or can I just get
Exotic Melee Skill (Cat Fight): And cover everything...
I'll have to corner my GM...

A little late, but I would rule it as Unarmed Combat, Blades, or Clubs, as apropriate with the Cyber-Weapons specialization available, for any weapon that is used in a similar manner to what those skills already cover. Use Blades for the claws. Then I would rule Exotic Weapons (Cyber-Weapons) to cover all unusual cyber weapons, be it from an unusual location or design.

On the topic of Exotic Weapon skill being a complication, I do not use it for specific weapons, but unusual categories not covered by the conventional weapons skills - example being the above mentioned cyber-weapons, or using Arsenal, Flamethrowers & Laser Weapons, although those two could be covered under Heavy Weapons & Pistols/Longarms, respectfully.

[Kremlin KOA]

If there are bugs in the rules, they'll get fixed in an errata.

in today's entymology lesson... Optimism

GM: "Uh, guys? Emotitoys don't exist in this game. Anime sucks."
Players: "Amen."
Problem: Solved.

Or in many of the tables I have played at

GM: "Uh, guys? Emotitoys don't exist in this game. Anime sucks."
Players: "Ame... What?"
*sounds of a Gm screaming in agony and the sounds of tearing flesh*
New GM "Ok, Anime rocks, but still, balance wise emotitoys do not stack with kinesics."
Players: "Cool, none of us were playing adepts anyway"
Problem solved